6 ms·

"The crew went around, climbed to 8500 feet, depressurized the aircraft, opened the cockpit side window and cleaned the windscreen by hand."

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
joncrane 7y ago
Twice! They tried to land at the original airport again, it happened again, they cleaned it again, then diverted. The pictures are intense! Edit: The original title was way more focused on the fact this is a Boeing 737; I feel the new post title is a good compromise. BTW: I think this is gaining traction because it's a 737; however, can most airplane windshield wipers clean a thick layer of dead, crushed locusts off the windscreen? I would argue that we should change the title to "airliner." I think the title is meant intentionally to capitalize on the notoriety of the model of airplane, when this incident is not specific to that model.
- pmyteh 7y ago
  There's no intention to capitalise here: Simon Hradecky (who runs the Aviation Herald) runs almost all his headlines in a standard format: (Crash|Accident|Incident|Report): <Airline> <aircraft type code> at <place> on <date>, <short description>. The description is sometimes updated when more information comes in.
- pgt 7y ago
  Reminds me of the F-16 staple scene from Hot Shots! (1991): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdbqK4iUsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdbqK4iUsU
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >can most airplane windshield wipers clean a thick layer of dead, crushed locusts off the windscreen? Pretty much any rubber bladed windshield wiper will not be able to clear them after they dry out and at several hundred miles an hour with equatorial air temperatures that will happen very quickly.
  - deeblering4 7y ago
    Do aircraft have the ability to spray liquid on the windscreen, like cars do?
    - irscott 7y ago
      Depending on altitude I bet this could cause the windscreen to ice over.
    - VBprogrammer 7y ago
      Older aircraft had the ability to spray deicing fluid on the windshield. After that bleed air from the engines was used but now it's mostly electrically heated.
  - sangnoir 7y ago
    Wipers make it worse! I had the misfortune of driving through some flying termites (not dense - think 20 splats/minute). Insects have fatty/non-soluble insides: when I turned on the wipers, I managed smears the goop more uniformly across the windshield, making visibility infinitely worse. Spraying water does not help, unless it has some detergent in it.
wereHamster 7y ago
I want to know how it feels to open the cockpit window at 200 kts. Also, how far out do they need to lean to reach the whole window?
- zubspace 7y ago
  I guess by looking at the picture of the cockpit inside that one of the pilots only cleaned the part of the window on the left side which was reachable.
- 0xfaded 7y ago
  I've done it at 140kts with a GoPro. Feels like your arm is in cold turbulant water. Presumably at 200kts the forces would be double.
- base698 7y ago
  I've exited an aircraft at 220kts a few times. It's very hard and feels almost like hitting a wall. I'll quote myself after the first time when it knocked me for a loop: > That wind made me it's bitch.
madaxe_again 7y ago
I am slightly scratching my head as to why, unless the pilots were only qualified for VFR. I learned to fly with the RAF as an air cadet. I vividly recall the first lesson in which my instructor whipped out a piece of cardboard, covered the windscreen, and said “land”. It turns out that as long as you’ve ILS, you can do it with zero vis. It looks like they had ILS available: https://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=ET86469 https://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=ET86469 I can’t help but think a blind landing is safer than depressurising a cabin full of passengers.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >I can’t help but think a blind landing is safer than depressurising a cabin full of passengers. We're talking about 1000ft above Mexico city amount of altitude, here, not Mt. Everest. Any inherent risk from that is below the threshold of what's quantifiable. Skydivers routinely jump from 10,000ft.
  - jvm_ 7y ago
    Where they finally landed, Addis Ababa is at 7,726, Mexico City is 7,350.
    - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
      That makes a lot more sense. When I initially read the article, I assumed they were landing at a typical runway within ~1000 feet of sea level and for some unfathomable reason decided to ascend many thousands of feet before opening the window. I forget how high Addis Ababa is!
- t0mas88 7y ago
  I'm 100% sure they weren't only qualified for VFR. Every airline pilot is instrument rated, and there are no places that will give you a 737 type rating without IR. Even when flying on instruments you still land visually, unless the aircraft is cat iii / autoland capable, the crew is certified and current and the airport has cat iii procedures in effect. Probably they didn't have one of these and didn't want to land with zero visibility. Depressurizing at 8500ft is a good choice, the cabin is normally pressurized to the equivalent of 8000ft outside air pressure. So what they did was basically open the outflow valves and passengers wouldn't have noticed a thing.
cushychicken 7y ago
I'd love to see the entry in the situational playbook for scenarios like that.
- nathancahill 7y ago
  Here you go: https://hursts.org.uk/airbus-nonnormal/notes.pdf https://hursts.org.uk/airbus-nonnormal/notes.pdf Section 2.17. Volcanic Ash Encounter
michaelt 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9: "The aircraft flew into a cloud of volcanic ash [...] resulting in the failure of all four engines. [...] The cloud sandblasted the windscreen and landing light covers [...] After landing, the flight crew found it impossible to taxi, due to glare from apron floodlights which made the already sandblasted windscreen opaque." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pilots-awarded-medal-for-landing-blind-after-istanbul-hailstorm/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pilots-awarded-medal... / http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/29/ukrainian-pilot-miraculously-lands-damaged-plane-in-turkey/ http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/29/ukrainian-pilot-miracu... "Soon after take-off, at 1,300 metres above the ground, the aircraft’s nose was pummelled by hailstones the size of golf balls, shattering the windscreen and leaving the pilots unable to see." "The pilot made a decision to return and was able to land by tilting the airplane to see the runway through the side window and by good coordination with the airport’s dispatchers."
- whycombagator 7y ago
  You missed my favourite part and quote from the pilot (Moody): > As Flight 9 approached Jakarta, the crew found it difficult to see anything through the windscreen, and made the approach almost entirely on instruments, despite reports of good visibility. The crew decided to fly the instrument landing system (ILS); however, the vertical guidance system was inoperative, so they were forced to fly with only the lateral guidance as the first officer monitored the airport's distance measuring equipment (DME). He then called out how high they should be at each DME step along the final approach to the runway, creating a virtual glide slope for them to follow. Moody described it as "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse."
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - djohnston 7y ago
    Wow, the number of failsafes in aviation is genuinely comforting
jefftk 7y ago
Initially I thought that since Dire Dawa is 4200 feet above sea level it was weird that they'd climb to ~4300 feet above ground level. But Dire Dawa is just a few miles north of the Ahmar Mountains (part of the Ethiopian Highlands), and they probably needed to climb that much to clear them.
jmkni 7y ago
I know nothing about aviation, is that what pilots are supposed to do in a situation like this?
- alistairSH 7y ago
  Go arounds are a "normal" deviation from plan and pilots train for them. Reasons vary - airplane or traffic on runway, weather, and now bugs. As a passenger, you might not encounter one - my first time was in Sprint 2019, approaching Heathrow - traffic on the runway from a debris check, we were already on final, caught me off guard, but wasn't too scary. As for the windscreen, I'm not sure if the 737 checklists include "depressurize and clean manually" for bug strikes, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did have instructions for general "windshield is obscured" conditions.
  - jmkni 7y ago
    Thanks

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

joncrane 7y ago

Twice! They tried to land at the original airport again, it happened again, they cleaned it again, then diverted. The pictures are intense! Edit: The original title was way more focused on the fact this is a Boeing 737; I feel the new post title is a good compromise. BTW: I think this is gaining traction because it's a 737; however, can most airplane windshield wipers clean a thick layer of dead, crushed locusts off the windscreen? I would argue that we should change the title to "airliner." I think the title is meant intentionally to capitalize on the notoriety of the model of airplane, when this incident is not specific to that model.

pmyteh 7y ago
There's no intention to capitalise here: Simon Hradecky (who runs the Aviation Herald) runs almost all his headlines in a standard format: (Crash|Accident|Incident|Report): <Airline> <aircraft type code> at <place> on <date>, <short description>. The description is sometimes updated when more information comes in.
pgt 7y ago
Reminds me of the F-16 staple scene from Hot Shots! (1991): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdbqK4iUsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdbqK4iUsU
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>can most airplane windshield wipers clean a thick layer of dead, crushed locusts off the windscreen? Pretty much any rubber bladed windshield wiper will not be able to clear them after they dry out and at several hundred miles an hour with equatorial air temperatures that will happen very quickly.
- deeblering4 7y ago
  Do aircraft have the ability to spray liquid on the windscreen, like cars do?
  - irscott 7y ago
    Depending on altitude I bet this could cause the windscreen to ice over.
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    Older aircraft had the ability to spray deicing fluid on the windshield. After that bleed air from the engines was used but now it's mostly electrically heated.
- sangnoir 7y ago
  Wipers make it worse! I had the misfortune of driving through some flying termites (not dense - think 20 splats/minute). Insects have fatty/non-soluble insides: when I turned on the wipers, I managed smears the goop more uniformly across the windshield, making visibility infinitely worse. Spraying water does not help, unless it has some detergent in it.

wereHamster 7y ago

I want to know how it feels to open the cockpit window at 200 kts. Also, how far out do they need to lean to reach the whole window?

zubspace 7y ago
I guess by looking at the picture of the cockpit inside that one of the pilots only cleaned the part of the window on the left side which was reachable.
0xfaded 7y ago
I've done it at 140kts with a GoPro. Feels like your arm is in cold turbulant water. Presumably at 200kts the forces would be double.
base698 7y ago
I've exited an aircraft at 220kts a few times. It's very hard and feels almost like hitting a wall. I'll quote myself after the first time when it knocked me for a loop: > That wind made me it's bitch.

madaxe_again 7y ago

I am slightly scratching my head as to why, unless the pilots were only qualified for VFR. I learned to fly with the RAF as an air cadet. I vividly recall the first lesson in which my instructor whipped out a piece of cardboard, covered the windscreen, and said “land”. It turns out that as long as you’ve ILS, you can do it with zero vis. It looks like they had ILS available: https://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=ET86469 https://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=ET86469 I can’t help but think a blind landing is safer than depressurising a cabin full of passengers.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>I can’t help but think a blind landing is safer than depressurising a cabin full of passengers. We're talking about 1000ft above Mexico city amount of altitude, here, not Mt. Everest. Any inherent risk from that is below the threshold of what's quantifiable. Skydivers routinely jump from 10,000ft.
- jvm_ 7y ago
  Where they finally landed, Addis Ababa is at 7,726, Mexico City is 7,350.
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    That makes a lot more sense. When I initially read the article, I assumed they were landing at a typical runway within ~1000 feet of sea level and for some unfathomable reason decided to ascend many thousands of feet before opening the window. I forget how high Addis Ababa is!
t0mas88 7y ago
I'm 100% sure they weren't only qualified for VFR. Every airline pilot is instrument rated, and there are no places that will give you a 737 type rating without IR. Even when flying on instruments you still land visually, unless the aircraft is cat iii / autoland capable, the crew is certified and current and the airport has cat iii procedures in effect. Probably they didn't have one of these and didn't want to land with zero visibility. Depressurizing at 8500ft is a good choice, the cabin is normally pressurized to the equivalent of 8000ft outside air pressure. So what they did was basically open the outflow valves and passengers wouldn't have noticed a thing.

cushychicken 7y ago

I'd love to see the entry in the situational playbook for scenarios like that.

nathancahill 7y ago
Here you go: https://hursts.org.uk/airbus-nonnormal/notes.pdf https://hursts.org.uk/airbus-nonnormal/notes.pdf Section 2.17. Volcanic Ash Encounter

michaelt 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9: "The aircraft flew into a cloud of volcanic ash [...] resulting in the failure of all four engines. [...] The cloud sandblasted the windscreen and landing light covers [...] After landing, the flight crew found it impossible to taxi, due to glare from apron floodlights which made the already sandblasted windscreen opaque." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pilots-awarded-medal-for-landing-blind-after-istanbul-hailstorm/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pilots-awarded-medal... / http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/29/ukrainian-pilot-miraculously-lands-damaged-plane-in-turkey/ http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/29/ukrainian-pilot-miracu... "Soon after take-off, at 1,300 metres above the ground, the aircraft’s nose was pummelled by hailstones the size of golf balls, shattering the windscreen and leaving the pilots unable to see." "The pilot made a decision to return and was able to land by tilting the airplane to see the runway through the side window and by good coordination with the airport’s dispatchers."

whycombagator 7y ago
You missed my favourite part and quote from the pilot (Moody): > As Flight 9 approached Jakarta, the crew found it difficult to see anything through the windscreen, and made the approach almost entirely on instruments, despite reports of good visibility. The crew decided to fly the instrument landing system (ILS); however, the vertical guidance system was inoperative, so they were forced to fly with only the lateral guidance as the first officer monitored the airport's distance measuring equipment (DME). He then called out how high they should be at each DME step along the final approach to the runway, creating a virtual glide slope for them to follow. Moody described it as "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse."
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- djohnston 7y ago
  Wow, the number of failsafes in aviation is genuinely comforting

jefftk 7y ago

Initially I thought that since Dire Dawa is 4200 feet above sea level it was weird that they'd climb to ~4300 feet above ground level. But Dire Dawa is just a few miles north of the Ahmar Mountains (part of the Ethiopian Highlands), and they probably needed to climb that much to clear them.

jmkni 7y ago

I know nothing about aviation, is that what pilots are supposed to do in a situation like this?

alistairSH 7y ago
Go arounds are a "normal" deviation from plan and pilots train for them. Reasons vary - airplane or traffic on runway, weather, and now bugs. As a passenger, you might not encounter one - my first time was in Sprint 2019, approaching Heathrow - traffic on the runway from a debris check, we were already on final, caught me off guard, but wasn't too scary. As for the windscreen, I'm not sure if the 737 checklists include "depressurize and clean manually" for bug strikes, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did have instructions for general "windshield is obscured" conditions.
- jmkni 7y ago
  Thanks