7 ms·
We can, stop using and supporting these predatory companies. Never use Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Uber Eats, AirBnB etc. No exception irregardless how easy or cheap
by sschueller 7y ago
We can, stop using and supporting these predatory companies.
Never use Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Uber Eats, AirBnB etc. No exception irregardless how easy or cheap it may be. It's a small sacrifice but can and will make a difference.
Using these services to me is like asking a waiter to pay for part of my meal. When it comes around to paying the bill are you able to face someone and ask them to pay for part of what they just served you knowing that they are barely making a living?
- jopsen 7y agoTaxis, restaurants, relocation assistants, fast food, online shopping, ... If you live in the US, you have to give up a lot of services if you don't want to buy from people who are underpaid..
- hocuspocus 7y ago> relocation assistants Does this mean something completely different in the US compared to the rest of the world? How is anyone in this business being underpaid?!
- mjevans 7y agoThey're talking about the labor for moving things, and yeah, it's a "service" job so it too is owned by someone else who takes most of the profits.
- hocuspocus 7y agoGot it, that's a funny way to call movers. Relocation agents (employed or freelancing) can easily bill $1000/day over here so I was a bit confused.
- jopsen 7y agoI recall the relocation agent I was setup with when hubting apartments in SF.. She was freelancing and looking forward to Obamacare -- having not had healthcare in 15 years. I took note of that, because to me not having health insurance seemed completely unreasonable. I almost left the continent when HR tried to convince me I should trust "retroactive" insurance -- and I would get the policy after 30 days, lol.. maybe in just paranoid :)
- ace32229 7y agoOut of curiosity, what made you put AirBnB in that list?
- sschueller 7y agohttp://insideairbnb.com/index.html http://insideairbnb.com/index.html
- Nextgrid 7y agoHow they fob you off when things go wrong (secret camera in the room, outright scam with no actual place to stay, etc) until the media gets wind of it at which point they make it right and issue a BS apology? The latter part is the worst. It's one thing to be a dick but at least if you are then own up to it and be a dick to everyone equally. But this is literally the worst, as it explicitly aims to exploit the most vulnerable (who may not have a huge social media presence or a contact within the press) while attempting to keep a good public image (given the company is still around I guess that's working).
- mschuetz 7y agoThat's not going to happen, the majority will always be drawn towards the cheaper choices. Work conditions and minimum pay are things that need to be regulated, because people won't chose their burger place based on how much their staff earns.
- kingkawn 7y agoI would.
- conanbatt 7y agoBut the law you have now is the result of the political power you are summoning. How do you parse that neither consumers, drivers, companies or the electoral body has your preferences in mind?
- throwaway55554 7y agoIncreasingly, it is getting harder for most people to not focus on the cheaper choices.
- throwaway2048 7y agothe two are related deeply.
- Reedx 7y agoYou don't know what the waiter's situation is, so how can we presume to know better than they do? Are you sure the people who are choosing to work for these services would agree? Secondly, you have the option of giving a nice tip. I suspect they'd prefer that over not renting their Airbnb or whatever service they're offering.
- s_dev 7y ago>Secondly, you have the option of giving a nice tip. DoorDash is litterally taking the tips left for the staff though ...
- analyst74 7y agoThat not true anymore
- Ragnarork 7y agoYou should read the article.
- squiggleblaz 7y agoRead the article. They say they don't take tips, but the relationship between tip and actual pay is so arcane, that driver payment is higher when you tip $1 than when you tip $8. Obviously they don't know what the algorithm is, but it's not as simple as "we'll pay the driver the delivery fee and keep the service charge, and you can give them something on top of that". It's more like "we'll take as much of the tip, the delivery fee and the service charge as we possibly can get away with, even though that's completely in contradiction to what the purchaser thinks their doing".
- Reedx 7y agoIt's gross how they're handling tips. Give cash instead as long as this is the case.
- eptcyka 7y agoYeah, but every time you use AirBnB, a would be first-time homeowner cries to his sleep.
- Drakar1903 7y agoYou could book an Uber to two streets away and tell the driver that you actually want to go to somewhere else, and you'll pay the guy under the table. Bet they won't mind that.
- reaperducer 7y agoIllegal. At least where and when I drove for Uber. And there were plenty of local government inspectors posing as passengers trying to catch these sorts of shenanigans.
- Nextgrid 7y agoIs there any reason why the law would be involved? Uber might not be happy but why does that have legal implications? Does this also mean they're not allowed to drive for anything else but Uber?
- reaperducer 7y agoOff the top of my head, safety and taxes. Ride hailing is regulated, in part, to ensure that people aren't being taken advantage of. It's also regulated to make sure that taxes and fees are being properly collected. Taxis and private bus services weren't always regulated, but they became regulated because they took advantage of their customers. Similarly, regulations are placed on ride hailing to that passengers get what they paid for and there is at least some accountability.
- squiggleblaz 7y agoIs AirBnb as bad as the rest? I had understood the problem was that it was so lucrative it hurt people looking for a place to live. This is very different from the problem with Uber, Doordash etc. In Uber and Doordash, the person being hurt is a member of the transaction; in the case of Airbnb, I had thought they're a third party who couldn't get in.
- antisthenes 7y agoAirBnb is just different. My gut non-PhD economist feeling is that AirBnb has very few people from the bottom 2 quartiles participating in it in the first place. It's wealthy land owners offering short term rentals to people with substantial disposable incomes. Cash and capital poor people are largely excluded (priced out) from the platform altogether, whereas on DoorDash and Uber/Lyft they comprise the vast majority of the service providers.
- BelleOfTheBall 7y agoOut of curiosity, are there any more ethical alternatives to AirBnB? My partner travels a lot for work and doesn't like staying in hotels. He's fine with staying in rooms vs. whole apartments (which seems to be the biggest strike on AirBnB's model) but it's pretty tough to dig up credible renters for each place he visits. Is there a Craigslist-like option or are hotels the best bet if we decide to drop AirBnB?
- ghaff 7y agoThere are traditional B&Bs--though much less so in cities and many presumably cross-list on AirBnB these days. Honestly, for regular business travel, chain hotels may be boring but they have 24 hour desks and a certain level of standards (which varies by chain). When I'm travelling for business, the last thing I need is lack of predictability.
- amanaplanacanal 7y agoI believe VRBO is a similar service. I haven’t used them. Can’t speak to the ethics question either.
- malandrew 7y agoI can't think of a tech company with more ethical well-meaning employees than AirBnB. Have you actually ever interacted with someone who works there? They even have a pretty strong ethics/value interview to weed out unethical people. If you don't believe me, go apply for yourself.
- BelleOfTheBall 7y agoThis isn't about the moral qualities of people there, it's about the impact the company has on the housing market and how it treats AirBnB owners. There are links in the comments here to studies on the harm AirBnB does, nobody said a thing about the employees being unethical.
- marketingfool 7y agoWe hosted an Airbnb, we got awards for being top hosts and provided a cheaper stay than our local trash hotel. Everyone that stayed over would become friends or friendly and we'd provide anything they requested. The problem is the trash hotel nearby doesn't like competition and reported us to the city.
- rchaud 7y agoIf you are hosting guests at the home where you also live, I doubt anyone in this thread would oppose that. It's literally a bed and breakfast in the traditional sense. Airbnb corrupted that by incentivizing a business model where investor groups buy up entire properties solely for Airbnb use. That's very different from what you're describing. They're acting as full-scale hoteliers, but evading hotel regulations and zoning laws by setting up shop in residential neighborhoods. And of course, reducing the overall housing supply for all the people who actually live in that area.
- asah 7y agoWe can, but.. - incumbent taxis are also predatory services that abuse drivers, arguably worse than Uber/Lyft - and they're a shitty rider experience in many many ways. - hotels are OK but rarely provide kitchens, let alone friendly hosts who bake you killer banana bread (yesterday's stay) - delivery from individual restaurants is rarely available at all, and thus you're going to call a Postmates/etc to help pickup. Delivery is all-but-required when feeding a large group, e.g. work function.
- Nextgrid 7y ago> delivery from individual restaurants is rarely available at all You can thank the likes of Uber Eats, Deliveroo, etc. A lot of restaurants would've otherwise had their own service, and some actually replaced their own service with these companies.
- throwaway55554 7y agoOne has to decide, do I give up some comforts to make things better for others or not? I'm sure it's usually pretty easy to convince oneself that others won't give up the comforts so nothing will change and just continue using the services.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y agoJust to be clear, whose life is being made better by you not taking delivery of food? The now unemployed delivery worker? The restaurant workers? Yourself?
- nsxwolf 7y agoHow does it make things better for those people? By taking away their opportunity? So they go home, and rethink their life, and come up with a better way to make money? Great, but is taking away bad jobs really the best way to do that?
- everdrive 7y agoNone of these things are real problems. Not every lazy whim must be catered to by a company.
- fouc 7y agoOYO hotels seems like another one based on this model. Heck maybe avoid most or all of the SoftBank funded startups?
- lotsofpulp 7y agoOyo is worse than the others. They think they can offer the same type of hotel quality without employing all the quality inspectors of Marriott/Hilton/IHG/Hyatt/etc. I don’t think any educated adult could be dumb enough to fall for that. I have to assume any VC taking part in a business that needs additional human labor to scale and hence has significant marginal costs is simply betting on being able to dump the company in the public markets.
- rchaud 7y agoOyo's top VC happens to be none other than Mayasoshi Son.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoYes, his current strategy seems to be find a magazine article worthy “leader” like the we work guy or the oyo kid and hype them up and hope he can dump it before there are no buyers. I don’t know what his strategy was in the past, but he commands quite a bit of money so maybe it worked at some point.
- Nextgrid 7y agoI've stopped using the "move fast and break things" garbage but for an additional reason: customer service is outsourced to monkeys and respect isn't a thing. Some of these companies would argue and bullshit me about a 10£ refund on a 2 year old account which has been used daily and netted them over a thousand in revenue. Eventually did a chargeback (it isn't about the money even, but being treated like shit meant I was out for revenge) and switched to the local companies that big tech was supposed to "disrupt".
- rchaud 7y agoI'm fortunate to live in a city with restaurants within walking distance and a solid public transport system. As such my use of food delivery services and Uber/Lyft is almost zero. When I need delivery, I'll check to see if they offer it in-house. For pizza places I know they hire their own delivery staff, so I make sure to tip well.