4 ms·

Thanks for doing this analysis! After riding other transit in the US (NJ Transit, LIRR, Amtrak, BART, misc Subways), high speed rail in China and Japan, and tr

Thanks for doing this analysis! After riding other transit in the US (NJ Transit, LIRR, Amtrak, BART, misc Subways), high speed rail in China and Japan, and trains in Europe; Caltrain stands out to me as the most jerky train I've been on. Often times high speed rail in East Asian countries are so smooth that you can balance a coin on its edge without falling. Comparing apples to apples, even NJ Transit and LIRR are noticeably smoother than Caltrain. It would be interesting to see what the difference is between systems. > Looking at data from a few different trips, Caltrain does a good job subjecting passengers to no more than 1g of roughness in any direction. This at first to me seemed like a low bar (relative to other trains out there), but then I forgot about the sudden jerks and direction changes the SF Muni and NY Subway often subject passengers. 1g in any direction I suppose is good for subways, but still poor for trains overall. Unfortunately I doubt Caltrain's current Electrification project won't solve any of these issues, given that it seems like more issues with the track, not with the power source. Perhaps the new trains might help?

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Not as hot in the summer for east coast commuter rail.
nhf 7y ago
Much of the side-to-side jerking is a combination of the poor suspension on the trucks (bogies) of the older Gallery train cars and fast running over track switches. The Gallery cars are the ones that look like steel toasters. If you take a ride in one of the "newer" Bombardier cars (the octagonal ones) the ride is much smoother and the bumps are almost imperceptible with little swaying. I'd imagine the new trains post-electrification will also be much better on the suspension front.
- carlob 7y ago
  > I'd imagine the new trains post-electrification will also be much better on the suspension front. So right now this is still Diesel?
  - amluto 7y ago
    Yes. It’ll be a couple years before Caltrain has electric trains.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Yep. Towns along the peninsula (looking at you Atherton) are fighting electrification (as well as grade separation) tooth and nail.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      Why? What's the disadvantage for them? Just the installation cost?
      - inferiorhuman 7y ago
        Mostly they don't want to mingle with the hoi polloi. Atherton (not Belmont – all those shitty little peninsula towns blend together in my mind) sued because they didn't want trees removed to make way for overhead wires (the claim was that "cleaner" diesel would be better than electric)[0]. Then they sued because the poles were going to be 10 ft higher than promised[1]. Another Atherton resident[2] sued because he wanted Union Pacific to explicitly approve everything beforehand. More dreck[3]. Caltrain's getting sued left and right over the electrification, starved for money by BART, and generally ignored by politicians. If you're ever curious about why Bay Area transit is as bad as it is, Caltrain is a great case study. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain#Lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain#La... 1: https://www.almanacnews.com/news/2017/12/21/atherton-battling-caltrain-over-electrification-poles https://www.almanacnews.com/news/2017/12/21/atherton-battlin... 2: http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/08/another-peninsula-nimby-lawsuit/ http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/08/another-peninsula-nimby-law... 3: https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/08/atherton-et-al-lawsuit-decided.html https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/08/atherton-et-al-law...
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Much of the side-to-side jerking is a combination of the poor suspension on the trucks (bogies) of the older Gallery train cars and fast running over track switches. The Gallery cars are the ones that look like steel toasters. I imagine there's also quite a bit of hunting / side-to-side movement as well. BART tried to solve this with flat wheels, and after forty years of complaints came to the conclusion that flat wheels wear the track down more and cause significant noise. They've since cut a conical profile (like most rail operators) into the wheels under the guise of reducing noise. I can't hear much difference but the side-to-side motion is quite a bit more dramatic than I remember. If you take a ride in one of the "newer" Bombardier cars (the octagonal ones) the ride is much smoother and the bumps are almost imperceptible with little swaying. I'd imagine the new trains post-electrification will also be much better on the suspension front. It's been almost a decade since I've ridden Caltrain with any regularity but I don't remember being particularly enamored with how the Bombardier cars rode. If anything they rode firmer than the Nippon Sharyo cars over the bumps but had less lateral movement as a consequence. I remember there being quite a bit of variation (there are three distinct batches of them after all) – something you used to see with Muni buses. The German ones (Neoplan) touted their complex (independent) front suspension, and there was a huge variation in ride comfort with some being downright scary. The Hungarian (Ikarus) ones with their simpler solid axle up front seemed more consistently comfortable.
ZanyProgrammer 7y ago
Electrification will involve entirely new train sets, so it’ll go a very long ways towards fixing things. Electrified engines aren’t going to be pulling the older cars.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Not as hot in the summer for east coast commuter rail.

nhf 7y ago

Much of the side-to-side jerking is a combination of the poor suspension on the trucks (bogies) of the older Gallery train cars and fast running over track switches. The Gallery cars are the ones that look like steel toasters. If you take a ride in one of the "newer" Bombardier cars (the octagonal ones) the ride is much smoother and the bumps are almost imperceptible with little swaying. I'd imagine the new trains post-electrification will also be much better on the suspension front.

carlob 7y ago
> I'd imagine the new trains post-electrification will also be much better on the suspension front. So right now this is still Diesel?
- amluto 7y ago
  Yes. It’ll be a couple years before Caltrain has electric trains.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Yep. Towns along the peninsula (looking at you Atherton) are fighting electrification (as well as grade separation) tooth and nail.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Why? What's the disadvantage for them? Just the installation cost?
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Mostly they don't want to mingle with the hoi polloi. Atherton (not Belmont – all those shitty little peninsula towns blend together in my mind) sued because they didn't want trees removed to make way for overhead wires (the claim was that "cleaner" diesel would be better than electric)[0]. Then they sued because the poles were going to be 10 ft higher than promised[1]. Another Atherton resident[2] sued because he wanted Union Pacific to explicitly approve everything beforehand. More dreck[3]. Caltrain's getting sued left and right over the electrification, starved for money by BART, and generally ignored by politicians. If you're ever curious about why Bay Area transit is as bad as it is, Caltrain is a great case study. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain#Lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrification_of_Caltrain#La... 1: https://www.almanacnews.com/news/2017/12/21/atherton-battling-caltrain-over-electrification-poles https://www.almanacnews.com/news/2017/12/21/atherton-battlin... 2: http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/08/another-peninsula-nimby-lawsuit/ http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/08/another-peninsula-nimby-law... 3: https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/08/atherton-et-al-lawsuit-decided.html https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/08/atherton-et-al-law...
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
inferiorhuman 7y ago
Much of the side-to-side jerking is a combination of the poor suspension on the trucks (bogies) of the older Gallery train cars and fast running over track switches. The Gallery cars are the ones that look like steel toasters. I imagine there's also quite a bit of hunting / side-to-side movement as well. BART tried to solve this with flat wheels, and after forty years of complaints came to the conclusion that flat wheels wear the track down more and cause significant noise. They've since cut a conical profile (like most rail operators) into the wheels under the guise of reducing noise. I can't hear much difference but the side-to-side motion is quite a bit more dramatic than I remember. If you take a ride in one of the "newer" Bombardier cars (the octagonal ones) the ride is much smoother and the bumps are almost imperceptible with little swaying. I'd imagine the new trains post-electrification will also be much better on the suspension front. It's been almost a decade since I've ridden Caltrain with any regularity but I don't remember being particularly enamored with how the Bombardier cars rode. If anything they rode firmer than the Nippon Sharyo cars over the bumps but had less lateral movement as a consequence. I remember there being quite a bit of variation (there are three distinct batches of them after all) – something you used to see with Muni buses. The German ones (Neoplan) touted their complex (independent) front suspension, and there was a huge variation in ride comfort with some being downright scary. The Hungarian (Ikarus) ones with their simpler solid axle up front seemed more consistently comfortable.

ZanyProgrammer 7y ago

Electrification will involve entirely new train sets, so it’ll go a very long ways towards fixing things. Electrified engines aren’t going to be pulling the older cars.