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How would the government identify what is legitimate?

by pkaye 7y ago

jdashg 7y ago
They do alright with alcohol and tobacco, and even general goods! Black and grey markets make it very hard to get trustworthy information. Imagine if any product in a grocery store could poison you! The threat of recourse through the legal (and criminal) system does not provide protective pressure to black markets.
DoingIsLearning 7y ago
Regulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies/people are willing to do for a quick buck. You could argue that in the US there is a considerable amount of lobbying and influence that defeats the impartiality of some federal bodies but overall they do an amazing job at keep everyone safe.
- Gatsky 7y ago
  Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smoke in the future, it isn’t ever going to be worth 50 dead people. There is that, and then Juul pretending to be a benefit to society while getting children addicted to nicotine and then selling themselves to big tobacco... what exactly is the benefit of vaping? The argument it minimises the harm from smoking is nonsense and unproven. There are well established methods of reducing smoking on a societal level (put up the taxes), which return money to the government to pay for all the negative externalities of smoking which big tobacco isn’t held accountable for. Anyway, the USA has a funny attitude about these things. Personal choice and optionality are considered paramount. Someone else can pick up the pieces. Applying it everywhere is obviously flawed if you ask me.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    With the risk of creating a slippery slope, you could make the same argument for spending federal budget regulating breast implants, they are only fractionally used for breast reconstruction, so for the majority of cases they are elective and used by someone who has made that choice. The substance is legal and consumed by your citizens. Either make it illegal or regulate it, I am not sure there is much point in making moral judgements. *Breast not brest
  - eru 7y ago
    It's very hard to addict anyone to nicotine. Basically, doesn't really happen all that much. Cigarettes on the other hand are highly addictive. There's lots more in their smoke than just nicotine. See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine for more than you ever wanted to know.
    - berbec 7y ago
      I respectfully disagree. I was easily able to switch from cigarettes to vaping, but every time I stop vaping I get withdrawal.
      - eru 7y ago
        How does the withdrawal look like? I was quoting the research quoted by Gwern here.
        berbec 7y ago
        Sweats, nervousness, anxiety.
  - rzmnzm 7y ago
    No matter how much joy people get from driving, it is not worth 37,000 deaths per year. There are proven ways to reduce road fatalities (busses). The government should not be in the business of wasting taxpayer money regulating private pleasure cars.
  - 7y ago
asdff 7y ago
Licensed dispensaries in California undergo testing and inspections and have to get their products from licensed cultivators who also undergo testing and inspections. It's a regulated industry. However, you could be driving down a major street in LA and see a highly advertised dispensary with neon lights and a guy dancing with a sign in the road, and it still could be an unlicensed dispensary. Enforcement is practically nonexistent, but when they do crack down they like to make it a big show with a dozen cops with long arms and body armor pushing the kid at the counter working minimum wage to the ground, handcuffing everybody. Then they just fine the owner and close the store and the cuffs come off and everyone goes home. It's surreal.

How would the government identify what is legitimate?

by pkaye 7y ago

How would the government identify what is legitimate?

They do alright with alcohol and tobacco, and even general goods! Black and grey markets make it very hard to get trustworthy information. Imagine if any product in a grocery store could poison you! The threat of recourse through the legal (and criminal) system does not provide protective pressure to black markets.

DoingIsLearning 7y ago

Regulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies/people are willing to do for a quick buck. You could argue that in the US there is a considerable amount of lobbying and influence that defeats the impartiality of some federal bodies but overall they do an amazing job at keep everyone safe.

Gatsky 7y ago
Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smoke in the future, it isn’t ever going to be worth 50 dead people. There is that, and then Juul pretending to be a benefit to society while getting children addicted to nicotine and then selling themselves to big tobacco... what exactly is the benefit of vaping? The argument it minimises the harm from smoking is nonsense and unproven. There are well established methods of reducing smoking on a societal level (put up the taxes), which return money to the government to pay for all the negative externalities of smoking which big tobacco isn’t held accountable for. Anyway, the USA has a funny attitude about these things. Personal choice and optionality are considered paramount. Someone else can pick up the pieces. Applying it everywhere is obviously flawed if you ask me.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  With the risk of creating a slippery slope, you could make the same argument for spending federal budget regulating breast implants, they are only fractionally used for breast reconstruction, so for the majority of cases they are elective and used by someone who has made that choice. The substance is legal and consumed by your citizens. Either make it illegal or regulate it, I am not sure there is much point in making moral judgements. *Breast not brest
- eru 7y ago
  It's very hard to addict anyone to nicotine. Basically, doesn't really happen all that much. Cigarettes on the other hand are highly addictive. There's lots more in their smoke than just nicotine. See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine for more than you ever wanted to know.
  - berbec 7y ago
    I respectfully disagree. I was easily able to switch from cigarettes to vaping, but every time I stop vaping I get withdrawal.
    - eru 7y ago
      How does the withdrawal look like? I was quoting the research quoted by Gwern here.
      - berbec 7y ago
        Sweats, nervousness, anxiety.
- rzmnzm 7y ago
  No matter how much joy people get from driving, it is not worth 37,000 deaths per year. There are proven ways to reduce road fatalities (busses). The government should not be in the business of wasting taxpayer money regulating private pleasure cars.
- 7y ago

asdff 7y ago

Licensed dispensaries in California undergo testing and inspections and have to get their products from licensed cultivators who also undergo testing and inspections. It's a regulated industry. However, you could be driving down a major street in LA and see a highly advertised dispensary with neon lights and a guy dancing with a sign in the road, and it still could be an unlicensed dispensary. Enforcement is practically nonexistent, but when they do crack down they like to make it a big show with a dozen cops with long arms and body armor pushing the kid at the counter working minimum wage to the ground, handcuffing everybody. Then they just fine the owner and close the store and the cuffs come off and everyone goes home. It's surreal.