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Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products
- pbreit 7y agoThis seemed pretty obvious when all the stories were about cannabis vaping, not nicotine. And now vaping is thought to be unhealthier than tobacco smoking.
- KnightHawk3 7y agoExcept Montana, and afaik other places, banned forms of nicotine vaping in response to this. Also the general public seems to think it's related to nicotine, not thc.
- mcguire 7y agoSan Francisco, too?
- asdff 7y agoBeverly hills banned all tobacco save for cigars in certain clubs.
- mistermann 7y agoConsidering how the majority of the news releases and articles were written, it is not surprising that fear of vaping itself is the idea that remains in people's minds.
- macawfish 7y agoIt reminds me of "the great hack". Disinformation is so disturbing.
- creato 7y agoI don't think this is a deliberate disinformation problem, it's simply that good information and proper investigations take time. In the meantime, people speculating (primarily on social media) dominates and those opinions become indistinguishable from good information to most people, if they ever even see the definitive results at all. This dynamic has affected almost every thing I pay attention to on the internet. It's depressing.
- cududa 7y agoIf you wanna go another layer on “the great hack” the fun bit is Brittney Kaiser is full of crap. She ran election interference for the last Mexican presidential election. That just finally leaked this week in The Guardian If she was actually remorseful for her roll in Cambridge Analytica, she would’ve admitted that from the start, instead of doing this whole reputation PR/ The Great Hack thing to make herself still hireable.
- cookie_monsta 7y agoYes, I think we should have another category for "whistleblowers" who only appear after somebody else has already blown the whistle
- Stratoscope 7y agoThe stories were never about cannabis vaping either. They were about adulterated cannabis extract vaping. Someone using a cannabis flower vaporizer (e.g. PAX 2/3, Firefly, Arizer, Volcano) with pure lab tested flower was never at risk for the lung disease that vitamin E acetate has caused. The linked article doesn't mention vitamin E acetate, so here's one that discusses it: https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/20/21031771/vaping-lung-injuries-vitamin-e-acetate-cdc-thc-chemical https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/20/21031771/vaping-lung-inj...
- catalogia 7y ago> pure lab tested flower There has been some trouble with that too. Washington state doesn't require lab testing for pesticides, and in other states there have been cases of fraudulent testing (https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/industry-insiders-warn-of-fraud-at-marijuana-testing-labs/37979/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/industry-insiders-warn... https://www.leafly.com/news/industry/sequoia-analytics-surrenders-license-for-faking-lab-data https://www.leafly.com/news/industry/sequoia-analytics-surre... ) The industry is still maturing and I'm confident things will get better with time. But for the time being, consumers should exercise reasonable caution.
- thebigspacefuck 7y agoThere have been a few issues due to mold and yeast contamination too. Still, better than the black market days because you can check the serial number against the contaminated batches.
- Stratoscope 7y agoThat is true, and I didn't mean to imply that anything is risk free. Only that this particular risk is specifically caused by vitamin E acetate.
- thebigspacefuck 7y agoIt’s irritating that Apple pulled the Pax app from the App Store because it was related to “vaping”.
- KnightHawk3 7y agoWhat's the state of all the laws brought in against vapes under the pretence that nicotine vaping is causing the outbreak in lung illnesses.
- jrockway 7y agoLast I checked they banned all cartridges with flavor at the federal level, but made an exception for the liquid you put into your homebuilt equipment. I am not sure what this accomplishes. Perhaps making it difficult enough that teenagers don't vape? Here is the source of the regulations: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/enforcement-priorities-electronic-nicotine-delivery-system-ends-and-other-deemed-products-market https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidan... (I used to vape, so I'm familiar with the landscape, but am no longer personally invested.)
- MiroF 7y agoI think there are two related problems - one is contamination of black market carts the other is the rise of teenage nicotine intake My understanding is many of the federal laws are meant to address the latter, while the local laws like the MA vape ban meant to address the former are now being rolled back.
- g82918 7y agoVery early on scientists identified vitamin E additives as being the cause. Most black market vapes added vitamin E acetate ,etc.. to enhance the flavor profile of the "carts". Overall this isn't super surprising.
- mikeappell 7y agoI'm not sure if it was so much the flavor profile as it was being used to thin out the product using an inexpensive thinning agent. THC concentrate is very viscous, and needs to be cut with something to be viable for cartridge use. Iirc terpenes are used in higher quality products.
- eurleif 7y agoFrom what I've read, the primary goal was to cut it without thinning it very much, in order to pass the "bubble test". Consumers would test viscosity by observing how quickly the airbubble in the cartridge moved. Vitamin E acetate is thick enough to deceive people into thinking the cartridge wasn't cut.
- knolax 7y agoIf the headline says that the CDC confirms something, shouldn't a CDC press release or paper be used? Article seems to be from some third party citing this paper[0] and claiming they predicted it before. Title seems a little misleading. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6902e2.htm?s_cid=mm6902e2_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6902e2.htm?s_cid=mm...
- claar 7y agoThis article is an obvious propaganda piece. The CDC findings linked within, while boring to read, at least provide a more neutral view.
- inlined 7y agoI feel like propaganda is more subtle or persuasive. I’d personally have used a less charged word like “biased.”
- icanhackit 7y ago> This article is an obvious propaganda piece. They're clearly an advocate for vaping, however title [1] and summary are accurate. Per the CDC study: "Among EVALI patients reporting use of any THC-containing products, 122 of 130 (94%) of those aged 13–17 years acquired products through only informal sources" "A recent case-control study found vitamin E acetate in the bronchoalveolar lavage fluid of 94% of 51 EVALI patients and in none of 99 healthy controls in the comparator group (4)." "In addition, an analysis of THC-containing products seized by law enforcement in Minnesota found no vitamin E acetate in 10 products seized in 2018, and 100% of 20 products seized in 2019 contained vitamin E acetate (5)" [1] CDC Confirms Black Markets, Not “Vaping,” Caused Outbreak
- icanhackit 7y agoGiven the highly localised and sudden/synchronised bout of illness associated with vaping, to me it immediately seemed reasonable to assume contamination of a specific batch of products rather than the act of vaping in general being an issue. I'm not saying vaping doesn't perhaps have long term negative effects, just that the pattern of illness suggested an issue with specific products.
- brokensegue 7y agoit wasn't a contaminated batch. we know what caused it. it was a particular formulation of vape juice used by multiple suppliers.
- icanhackit 7y agoThat's what I meant. Specific products were using a harmful substance, rather than the act of vaping causing illness.
- brokensegue 7y agook sure. contaminated often implies some kind of accidental addition of harmful substances which isn't the case here which is what I was clarifying.
- ng12 7y agoI hope this spurs the government into action. NYC is absolutely flooded with perfectly legitimate looking vape cartridges filled with questionable product. They're often sold as being from a "dispensary brand" although they're obviously not. As an example, these were readily available for years despite the fact that the brand never even existed in the first place: https://merryjane.com/culture/are-smart-cart-vapes-legit-and-what-do-fakes-look-like https://merryjane.com/culture/are-smart-cart-vapes-legit-and...
- JimboOmega 7y agoWas surprised when I visited NYC to see California stamps on products my friend had. I assumed another friend had brought them from California, but it totally makes sense that it's black marketeers trying to look legit.
- pkaye 7y agoHow would the government identify what is legitimate?
- jdashg 7y agoThey do alright with alcohol and tobacco, and even general goods! Black and grey markets make it very hard to get trustworthy information. Imagine if any product in a grocery store could poison you! The threat of recourse through the legal (and criminal) system does not provide protective pressure to black markets.
- DoingIsLearning 7y agoRegulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies/people are willing to do for a quick buck. You could argue that in the US there is a considerable amount of lobbying and influence that defeats the impartiality of some federal bodies but overall they do an amazing job at keep everyone safe.
- WheelsAtLarge 7y agoThe big problem seems to be that vaping has never been proven to be safe or safer than cigarettes. There's always been the assumption that it is. My suspicion is that something like this outbreak will happen again. I'm not a fan of the vaping companies since their goal seems to be to get users addicted to their product but they should go through the process of proving that vaping is safer than cigarettes so they don't get blamed for the next outbreak. And cigarette users have a choice that's less harmful than smoking cigarettes.
- TylerE 7y agoCigarettes kill almost 500,000 people a year in the US alone. We could have 10 of these "outbreaks" a day and still be way ahead.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- allovernow 7y ago>Cigarettes kill almost 500,000 people a year in the US alone. I really feel like such statistics, for other topics as well, are unnecessarily sensationalist. Yes, people are dying from smoking related diseases, but they're not dropping dead from smoking. They smoke (and derive pleasure from doing so) for decades and increase their chances of lung disease. The truth doesn't sound quite as urgent, IMO. But I do agree with your general sentiment.
- TylerE 7y agoSmokers live, on average, 10 years less than non-smokers. That sounds pretty fucking urgent.
- harikb 7y agoThat 500,000 number includes those who have been smoking for many many years from a wide age range. Also the total number of smokers is also a large number (across years). So it is really not a fair comparison
- resters 7y agoAnd again, just as was the case with Boeing, the blame lands squarely on the shoulders of regulators who failed to adequately do their jobs. In the case of Boeing, the regulatory approach was a joke, and in the case of vaping, regulators had their heads in the sand about a multi billion dollar black market for years. The death toll resulting from backward recreational drug regulation in the US is mind boggling, not to mention all those still suffering in prison. People have a knee-jerk reaction of blaming firms and assuming that regulators are doing their best, when in fact regulators are the ones who create the entire (black, gray, etc.) market landscape for all participants to operate in.
- allovernow 7y agoHow do you regulate an illegal black market?
- resters 7y agoJust as many regulatory approaches don't work, outright bans is one that clearly doesn't work. They are rooted in a backward, dualistic view of the world. In the case of banning recreational drugs, the history of those laws is among the ugliest bits of American history. The practice of allowing firms to self-regulate crucial aircraft safety practices is also very foolhardy. When will we start holding the right parties responsible for all these tragedies? We the people need to insist that regulators step up and make us safer, not cater to whatever interest group has achieved regulatory capture.
- pergadad 7y agoThis seems to be a rather simplistic/one-sided answer furthering a specific agenda. * The responses that don't fit the narrative that 'legal' vaping is safe are'explained away' in this article - that's just unscientific and a matter of ignoring contrary evidence. * There are other dangers to vaping ignored in the argument (eg addiction, kids starting even earlier if there's 'bubblegum' or 'cherry' flavour rather than tobacco * No long term studies, so we really have no idea what's safe and what's not. * Overall there's no control or standards on the stuff in the vaping juice, so we still don't really know what effect which product might have. * The bans were not motivated just by the sick people but also the various other factors - so even if true that 'legal'vaping products weren't the cause there are many questions still to be answered. * ... The world is never so black and white as this article paints it. A) Is vaping better than cigarettes? Maybe. Is it better people switch to vaping? Maybe. Is it better we encourage/aid them to stop smoking and vaping? Absolutely. B) Will flavoured vaping with sweet flavours, wild west unlicensed/non-regulatef ingredients and unchecked advertising get more young people and even children interested and hooked? Absolutely.
- jdashg 7y agoB is solved by a legal market and framework that we already have for tobacco. The problem is treating vaping as worse than cigs, which have an absolutely stunning amount of evidence against them, in particular with tar and a laundry list of additives you won't see anywhere else. You're telling people to stay out of the shed when their house is already on fire! Harm minimization is the key to A. Is the system better or worse with regulated (sue-able!) market? Studies seem to show that we generally over-restrict relatively safe substances.
- himinlomax 7y ago> Is vaping better than cigarettes? Maybe There is simply no plausible way it's not. > Will flavoured vaping (...) get more young people and even children interested and hooked? Absolutely. What is known about cigarette and nicotine addiction makes it actually quite unlikely. Nicotine alone does not seem that addictive, in any case it's definitely much less addictive than nicotine plus the combustion products found in tobacco. Cf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16177026 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16177026
- rjmunro 7y agoThe Freakonomics podcast covered this: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/vaping-nicotine/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/vaping-nicotine/