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Ok. We'll see what happens. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html In the most fundame

Ok. We'll see what happens. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html In the most fundamental matters, President and Mrs Mubarak are incomparably more enlightened than the Egyptian public.

MichaelSalib 16y ago
So, does kidnapping innocent people off the streets, imprisoning them in dungeons and torturing them by wiring car batteries to their genitals count as "fundamental"? Or is that just one of those insignificant matters? What about stealing billions of dollars from your people? Is that a sign of enlightenment?
- mynameishere 16y ago
  "We'll see what happens." The discussions I've seen about Egypt seem to assume that it can be governed like the countries we're familiar with. Most of the things that seem evil are in fact cock-ups or unfortunate necessities. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain.
  - MichaelSalib 16y ago
    Actually, I'm pretty sure that when you wire up a car battery to someone's genitals, that IS evil. That's not an unfortunate necessity. And its not a screwup. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain. What did History ever do to you that compelled you to slander and malign it so?
    - mynameishere 16y ago
      What did History ever do to you that compelled you to slander and malign it so? Are you just completely irrational or does this mean something? I honestly can't tell. My point is simply that regime change doesn't automatically generate the political equivilent of rainbow-shitting unicorns, which is what people seem to be assuming. Governments tend to be molded by circumstances more than we realize, and not the personality of such-and-such a strongman. "We'll see what happens," is my final analysis but the best guess is always repetition.
      - MichaelSalib 16y ago
        Are you just completely irrational or does this mean something? I honestly can't tell. I think your explanation of US behavior in post-Hussein Iraq is ahistorical...to say the least. Governments tend to be molded by circumstances more than we realize, and not the personality of such-and-such a strongman. Absolutely, I very much agree. I'm still curious though: is child-rape enlightenment?
        mynameishere 16y ago
        is child-rape enlightenment? Okay, you're asking an imbecilic question, but I'll answer it because you're basically setting yourself up: No, it isn't. Now, is the mutilation of children, practiced by the Egyptian population in general, enlightenment? Is it? Huh? I answered your bullshit question; do me the favor of answering my real question. Maybe you should read the original article I posted and think twice.
MichaelSalib 16y ago
This is my favorite description of enlightenment ever, taken from http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002883.html http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002883.html Here's a section from The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright, describing what Mubarak's security services did after Ayman al-Zawahiri attempted to assassinate Mubarak in 1995: To deal with Zawahiri, Egyptian intelligence agents devised a fiendish plan. They lured a thirteen year-old boy named Ahmed into an apartment with the promise of juice and videos. Ahmed was the son of Mohammed Sharraf, a well-known Egyptian fundamentalist and a senior member of [Zawahiri's organization] al-Jihad. The boy was drugged and sodomized; when he awakened, he was confronted with photographs of the homosexual activity and threatened with the prospect of having them shown to his father. For the child, the consequences of such a disclosure were overwhelming. "It could even be that the father would kill him," a source close to Zawahiri admitted. After this the Egyptian agents got the first boy to lure in a second, whom they also drugged and raped. Then they got the two to spy on Zawahiri in an attempt to kill him. Then Zawahiri caught the two boys spying. And then he had them both shot. I guess enlightenment means raping children now. Are you enlightened too?

MichaelSalib 16y ago

So, does kidnapping innocent people off the streets, imprisoning them in dungeons and torturing them by wiring car batteries to their genitals count as "fundamental"? Or is that just one of those insignificant matters? What about stealing billions of dollars from your people? Is that a sign of enlightenment?

mynameishere 16y ago
"We'll see what happens." The discussions I've seen about Egypt seem to assume that it can be governed like the countries we're familiar with. Most of the things that seem evil are in fact cock-ups or unfortunate necessities. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain.
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
  Actually, I'm pretty sure that when you wire up a car battery to someone's genitals, that IS evil. That's not an unfortunate necessity. And its not a screwup. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain. What did History ever do to you that compelled you to slander and malign it so?
  - mynameishere 16y ago
    What did History ever do to you that compelled you to slander and malign it so? Are you just completely irrational or does this mean something? I honestly can't tell. My point is simply that regime change doesn't automatically generate the political equivilent of rainbow-shitting unicorns, which is what people seem to be assuming. Governments tend to be molded by circumstances more than we realize, and not the personality of such-and-such a strongman. "We'll see what happens," is my final analysis but the best guess is always repetition.
    - MichaelSalib 16y ago
      Are you just completely irrational or does this mean something? I honestly can't tell. I think your explanation of US behavior in post-Hussein Iraq is ahistorical...to say the least. Governments tend to be molded by circumstances more than we realize, and not the personality of such-and-such a strongman. Absolutely, I very much agree. I'm still curious though: is child-rape enlightenment?
      - mynameishere 16y ago
        is child-rape enlightenment? Okay, you're asking an imbecilic question, but I'll answer it because you're basically setting yourself up: No, it isn't. Now, is the mutilation of children, practiced by the Egyptian population in general, enlightenment? Is it? Huh? I answered your bullshit question; do me the favor of answering my real question. Maybe you should read the original article I posted and think twice.

MichaelSalib 16y ago

This is my favorite description of enlightenment ever, taken from http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002883.html http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002883.html Here's a section from The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright, describing what Mubarak's security services did after Ayman al-Zawahiri attempted to assassinate Mubarak in 1995: To deal with Zawahiri, Egyptian intelligence agents devised a fiendish plan. They lured a thirteen year-old boy named Ahmed into an apartment with the promise of juice and videos. Ahmed was the son of Mohammed Sharraf, a well-known Egyptian fundamentalist and a senior member of [Zawahiri's organization] al-Jihad. The boy was drugged and sodomized; when he awakened, he was confronted with photographs of the homosexual activity and threatened with the prospect of having them shown to his father. For the child, the consequences of such a disclosure were overwhelming. "It could even be that the father would kill him," a source close to Zawahiri admitted. After this the Egyptian agents got the first boy to lure in a second, whom they also drugged and raped. Then they got the two to spy on Zawahiri in an attempt to kill him. Then Zawahiri caught the two boys spying. And then he had them both shot. I guess enlightenment means raping children now. Are you enlightened too?