5 ms·

For those who don't know, Christopher Tolkien played a key role of editing and compiling his father's drafts and notes into several complete books published aft

by _bxg1 7y ago

For those who don't know, Christopher Tolkien played a key role of editing and compiling his father's drafts and notes into several complete books published after his death, including The Silmarillion, The Children of Hurin, and Unfinished Tales. Basically everything that came after The Lord of the Rings.

jfengel 7y ago
Indeed: while practically everything in The Silmarillion was his father's words, it did not appear until after JRR Tolkien's death. Only his father's name appears on it, but Christopher's editing was absolutely essential. It represents neither Tolkien's last thoughts nor his best writing, but the ones that Christopher felt were most consistent with the published Lord of the Rings. Christopher doesn't get enough credit for the monumental task of piecing something vaguely coherent from Tolkien's numerous drafts. He basically devoted his life to understanding his father's work. And that is effort should be appreciated: Tolkien was one of the most creative literary thinkers of the past century, and having so much insight into his process is almost unique among authors.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  And that was the most complete one of the bunch, from my understanding. Children of Hurin was only scraps before Christopher turned it into something cohesive. He still described his role as "editorial", but his father did not even have a draft of a standalone Hurin book.
- ska 7y ago
  As I understand it a lot of the heavy lifting on that (the Silmarillion) was done by a young Guy Gavriel Kay. But neither of them have been very forthcoming about the collaboration.
  - Andrex 7y ago
    Christopher has also publicly expressed regret at how quickly he assembled the published Silmarillion, I wonder if that's related.
    - einpoklum 7y ago
      Was he thinking about a re-edited edition of The Silmarillion? With significant changes?
      - mcguire 7y ago
        My understanding is that The Silmarilion was originally conceived as wrapped in Bilbo's Translations ftom the Elvish*. Christopher Tolkien said that he regretted not having that in the published version. But there was never any talk of a new edition.
  - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
    It has been years since I read about Kay's role, but IIRC he wrote only a few very brief passages and the pair were open about their roles. I remember being surprised at how little new material had to be written to make J.R.R. Tolkien's own texts coherent.
- Macha 7y ago
  The fact that it's not an easy thing should be appreciated when you look at how e.g. Brian Herbert's continuations of his father's writing were received, and is one of the reasons Rhianna Pratchett would rather write more video games (most notably the original Mirror's Edge and the latest Lara Croft reboots) than more Discworld.
  - AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
    Brian Herbert always struck me as cashing in on his father's popularity, rather than trying to augment the original vision. Frank Herbert took pains in the original Dune series to not spend time detailing the backstory of the Butlerian Jihad period of the world's history: to him, it was unimportant. For Brian to then explicitly devote a prequel trilogy to it gives it about as much weight in my eyes as a Star Wars Expanded Universe novel.
    - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
      I see no reason to believe Brian Herbert's claims that the work he has released (mostly farmed out to Kevin J Anderson) is actually based on anything real from his father's notes. If they are, he ought to release those to the public so we can form our own judgement. The Brian Herbert books are simply awful, and don't seem consistent with his father's work to me at all. Christopher Tolkien released extensive amounts of his fathers drafts and brainstorms. It's fascinating material, and underlines the integrity of Christopher Tolkien and the love of his dad's corpus.
      - eropple 7y ago
        Here's the most damning-with-faint-praise thing I can think to say, and it's true: I thought the House books (before the Jihad books) were the least bad things Kevin J. Anderson has ever had a hand in.
    - flukus 7y ago
      Brian Herberts books, the Game of Thrones final and from what I've heard the last Star Wars movie all have their detractors but personally I'm thankful for at least giving closure to the overall story arc. It might not be good but at least it's over. I also liked some of Brian Herberts books, particularly the prelude series. Legends was horrible and I think the series could have ended fine without the backstory.
another-dave 7y ago
And also drawing the final maps that appeared within The Lord of the Rings, if you've ever pored over them while reading. For me, they were an integral part of the book too, and something that also defined the fantasy genre experience and helped cement the world building of it.
- JohnBooty 7y ago
  This is quite true! However, also I have a bit of a rueful laugh whenever I think about LOTR's world-building because it was such a red herring for so many imitators who leaned so heavily into crafting their own intricate fantasy worlds but never matched the magic of LOTR because they could never recreate its heart.

by _bxg1 7y ago

jfengel 7y ago

Indeed: while practically everything in The Silmarillion was his father's words, it did not appear until after JRR Tolkien's death. Only his father's name appears on it, but Christopher's editing was absolutely essential. It represents neither Tolkien's last thoughts nor his best writing, but the ones that Christopher felt were most consistent with the published Lord of the Rings. Christopher doesn't get enough credit for the monumental task of piecing something vaguely coherent from Tolkien's numerous drafts. He basically devoted his life to understanding his father's work. And that is effort should be appreciated: Tolkien was one of the most creative literary thinkers of the past century, and having so much insight into his process is almost unique among authors.

_bxg1 7y ago
And that was the most complete one of the bunch, from my understanding. Children of Hurin was only scraps before Christopher turned it into something cohesive. He still described his role as "editorial", but his father did not even have a draft of a standalone Hurin book.
ska 7y ago
As I understand it a lot of the heavy lifting on that (the Silmarillion) was done by a young Guy Gavriel Kay. But neither of them have been very forthcoming about the collaboration.
- Andrex 7y ago
  Christopher has also publicly expressed regret at how quickly he assembled the published Silmarillion, I wonder if that's related.
  - einpoklum 7y ago
    Was he thinking about a re-edited edition of The Silmarillion? With significant changes?
    - mcguire 7y ago
      My understanding is that The Silmarilion was originally conceived as wrapped in Bilbo's Translations ftom the Elvish*. Christopher Tolkien said that he regretted not having that in the published version. But there was never any talk of a new edition.
- Mediterraneo10 7y ago
  It has been years since I read about Kay's role, but IIRC he wrote only a few very brief passages and the pair were open about their roles. I remember being surprised at how little new material had to be written to make J.R.R. Tolkien's own texts coherent.
Macha 7y ago
The fact that it's not an easy thing should be appreciated when you look at how e.g. Brian Herbert's continuations of his father's writing were received, and is one of the reasons Rhianna Pratchett would rather write more video games (most notably the original Mirror's Edge and the latest Lara Croft reboots) than more Discworld.
- AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
  Brian Herbert always struck me as cashing in on his father's popularity, rather than trying to augment the original vision. Frank Herbert took pains in the original Dune series to not spend time detailing the backstory of the Butlerian Jihad period of the world's history: to him, it was unimportant. For Brian to then explicitly devote a prequel trilogy to it gives it about as much weight in my eyes as a Star Wars Expanded Universe novel.
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    I see no reason to believe Brian Herbert's claims that the work he has released (mostly farmed out to Kevin J Anderson) is actually based on anything real from his father's notes. If they are, he ought to release those to the public so we can form our own judgement. The Brian Herbert books are simply awful, and don't seem consistent with his father's work to me at all. Christopher Tolkien released extensive amounts of his fathers drafts and brainstorms. It's fascinating material, and underlines the integrity of Christopher Tolkien and the love of his dad's corpus.
    - eropple 7y ago
      Here's the most damning-with-faint-praise thing I can think to say, and it's true: I thought the House books (before the Jihad books) were the least bad things Kevin J. Anderson has ever had a hand in.
  - flukus 7y ago
    Brian Herberts books, the Game of Thrones final and from what I've heard the last Star Wars movie all have their detractors but personally I'm thankful for at least giving closure to the overall story arc. It might not be good but at least it's over. I also liked some of Brian Herberts books, particularly the prelude series. Legends was horrible and I think the series could have ended fine without the backstory.

another-dave 7y ago

And also drawing the final maps that appeared within The Lord of the Rings, if you've ever pored over them while reading. For me, they were an integral part of the book too, and something that also defined the fantasy genre experience and helped cement the world building of it.

JohnBooty 7y ago
This is quite true! However, also I have a bit of a rueful laugh whenever I think about LOTR's world-building because it was such a red herring for so many imitators who leaned so heavily into crafting their own intricate fantasy worlds but never matched the magic of LOTR because they could never recreate its heart.