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Why is it clear that PR is the primary reason for doing it? A majority of Americans believe in climate change. What makes it hard to believe that an educated co

by gdulli 7y ago

Why is it clear that PR is the primary reason for doing it? A majority of Americans believe in climate change. What makes it hard to believe that an educated collection of people who make decisions at a large technology company sincerely care about doing something good about it? "Microsoft" isn't an entity with a will, it's just a collection of people. To the extent it has a will, that will is set by people. People with the demographics of the Microsoft population. If Microsoft wanted a pure "PR" move then climate change isn't a logical choice because it risks alienating members of one of the major domestic political parties, who have been conditioned to be hostile to the cause.

TheOperator 7y ago
>What makes it hard to believe that an educated collection of people who make decisions at a large technology company sincerely care about doing something good about it? I have incredibly cynical views on corporations due to their strong incentives to put the bottom line before everything else. They have a legal obligation to shareholders who tend to either be sociopathic or low-information enough to not care about anything about the bottom line. That all being said I do believe that do-gooders do try to push initiatives like this for ethical reasons and try to sell them to shareholders as helping the bottom line. Certainly IT will only come under more and more scrutiny in terms of its climate impact anyways.
- gdulli 7y ago
  > I have incredibly cynical views on corporations due to their strong incentives to put the bottom line before everything else. Yes, and I get the reasons for that, but you have to retain the ability to step outside your biases and see exceptions, even if the biases are logical and usually correct. Otherwise you go through life treating everything and everyone as a stereotype, which won't be accurate. It's not the case that a public company is legally forbidden from taking any action that can help the world more than the bottom line. They're openly taking the action anyway, it's not like the presence of sincerity in their motivation increases their legal exposure to shareholders. https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/academics/clarke_business_law_institute/corporations-and-society/Common-Misunderstandings-About-Corporations.cfm https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/academics/clarke_business_... > As the U.S. Supreme Court recently stated, "modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so."
nscalf 7y ago
I guess that's fair. Generally when a company acts, you can identify an upside for them. If you can't find any upside, then it may be a less obvious upside, PR being the most general category. To point to a company as a collection of individuals isn't compelling to me, organizations frequently act in ways that individuals would not. This is because incentives and goals can be very different to that of an individual. 84% of individuals (US) say climate change is a threat, so there is not much risk in alienating individuals. A recent pew study shows ~16% of people list climate change as no risk in the US, globally that number is 9% on average[1]. [1]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/18/a-look-at-how-people-around-the-world-view-climate-change/ft_19-04-18_climatechangeglobal_inmostsurveyedcountries_edited_2/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/18/a-look-at-h...

by gdulli 7y ago

TheOperator 7y ago

>What makes it hard to believe that an educated collection of people who make decisions at a large technology company sincerely care about doing something good about it? I have incredibly cynical views on corporations due to their strong incentives to put the bottom line before everything else. They have a legal obligation to shareholders who tend to either be sociopathic or low-information enough to not care about anything about the bottom line. That all being said I do believe that do-gooders do try to push initiatives like this for ethical reasons and try to sell them to shareholders as helping the bottom line. Certainly IT will only come under more and more scrutiny in terms of its climate impact anyways.

gdulli 7y ago
> I have incredibly cynical views on corporations due to their strong incentives to put the bottom line before everything else. Yes, and I get the reasons for that, but you have to retain the ability to step outside your biases and see exceptions, even if the biases are logical and usually correct. Otherwise you go through life treating everything and everyone as a stereotype, which won't be accurate. It's not the case that a public company is legally forbidden from taking any action that can help the world more than the bottom line. They're openly taking the action anyway, it's not like the presence of sincerity in their motivation increases their legal exposure to shareholders. https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/academics/clarke_business_law_institute/corporations-and-society/Common-Misunderstandings-About-Corporations.cfm https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/academics/clarke_business_... > As the U.S. Supreme Court recently stated, "modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so."

nscalf 7y ago

I guess that's fair. Generally when a company acts, you can identify an upside for them. If you can't find any upside, then it may be a less obvious upside, PR being the most general category. To point to a company as a collection of individuals isn't compelling to me, organizations frequently act in ways that individuals would not. This is because incentives and goals can be very different to that of an individual. 84% of individuals (US) say climate change is a threat, so there is not much risk in alienating individuals. A recent pew study shows ~16% of people list climate change as no risk in the US, globally that number is 9% on average[1]. [1]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/18/a-look-at-how-people-around-the-world-view-climate-change/ft_19-04-18_climatechangeglobal_inmostsurveyedcountries_edited_2/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/18/a-look-at-h...