4 ms·

While I'm taking NMN, as it's proven to be safe, I know that HGH + DHEA is the only drug from the list that has already proven to make healthy people younger.

While I'm taking NMN, as it's proven to be safe, I know that HGH + DHEA is the only drug from the list that has already proven to make healthy people younger. I'm seriously considering it in a few years after it has more time to be proven safe enough. For now I'm planning to measure DNA methylation in my body to understand the reason for my chronic illnesses better. I already got my DNA sequenced, but now that methylation can be measured cheaply as well, I don't see a reason why not to.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
> I know that HGH + DHEA is the only drug from the list that has already proven to make healthy people younger. If you have any ready-researched and outlined sources or links for this, please post them here for reference. I know that we all can google, but I think linking here will help a lot of people, me included. HN articles are sometimes used as an online notepad of sorts, a repository of well researched and compiled information with built-in peer review from (hopefully, since they are on HN) somewhat competent even if amateur internet researchers.
- nikkwong 7y ago
  My guess is he is referring to this paper, which made headlines a few months ago: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13028 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13028
  - socceroos 7y ago
    ...tested on 7 people.
- jonplackett 7y ago
  Is HGH + DHEA available to buy like a supplement? I would have presumed something containing hormones would be more regulated?
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    Not in the U.S.
  - JimboOmega 7y ago
    Not only is HGH regulated, it even is specifically addressed under law (in the US) that lead some to believe that even prescribing it off-label it is illegal. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HGH_controversies#Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HGH_controversies#Law
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    No, as it requires strong medical supervision. Greg Fahy’s company is running experiments on humans approved by the FDA in his company in Los Angeles.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
waserwill 7y ago
Maybe you know this, but: Interpreting DNA methylation isn't straightforward. Since it's involved in gene regulation and cell differentiation, it's variable across cells. Due to regulatory networks, whether any particular methylated region is responsible for some outcome may also be unclear. That being said, if you have reason to believe that the knowledge will help, or are just curious, feel free
- xiphias2 7y ago
  sure, I understand that, but from what I saw the data isn’t that hard to process either, there are multiple R libraries actually that help, I’m currently also learning Genomics Analysis Harvard course at edx.org. I already found multiple papers published in the last few years that identified the important locations with methylation changes, and those targets map to known illneses. I tried to go to many doctors, but as they couldn’t measure any important changes with their toolboxes, they all sent me to psychologists. Thanks for offering help, I’m always interested in learning more about genomics, though right now my plan is to learn by reproducing some articles that I read that contain methylation data sets (after the Harvard course).
asdff 7y ago
chances are you had your dna genotyped, not sequenced, if it was cheap. measuring your methylation patterns is not going to be cheap as you need to sequence your dna twice to see what has actually been methylated. i'm not sure if any companies are offering a consumer targeted panel approach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisulfite_sequencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisulfite_sequencing
- xiphias2 7y ago
  I’m planning to do 450k or EPIC BEADS chip, not whole epigenom sequencing, as most researchers used 450k chip for finding the interesting methylation differences for people affected by high air pollution. I saw about $500/sample, but if it’s significantly more, it’s not a problem for me, my chronic disease isn’t going away anyways.
arrosenberg 7y ago
> I already got my DNA sequenced, but now that methylation can be measured cheaply as well, I don't see a reason why not to. Are they just quantifying how many methyl groups are attached to a piece of DNA? Methylation is a mechanism for site-specific in/activation, so I'm unclear (and curious) how this would be useful.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  Methylation is changes slowly throughout the life, the strongest predictor of age inside the body (that's why it's used as an aging clock). This also means that it may be the most important thing to learn to manipulate to defeat aging. Also it's the cause of many non-genetic chronic diseases that come with age. In summary it's a really really important thing to study. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock#Properties_of_Horvath's_clock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock#Properties_of... There are other hallmarks of aging though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836174/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836174/
JimboOmega 7y ago
What's the difference between NMN vs NR? I take NR and they're chemically similar and I thought both are sold as anti-aging?
- xiphias2 7y ago
  They are similar, David Sinclair prefers NMN, but he doesn't have that strong preference.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  It's been claimed by some that NR is less stable in the bloodstream and doesn't boost NAD+ levels as much as NMN.
dpatrick86 7y ago
What makes you think NMN has been "proven to be safe?" That's a pretty strong standard to conform to. There's virtually no clinical work that's been done at all, for starters. A lot of genuine promising research in animals, but you also have this animal cancer model that suggests at least a little caution... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6448588/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6448588/
- chrisco255 7y ago
  NMN is a B-vitamin derivative.
erentz 7y ago
How does one go about measuring their methylation?
Medicalidiot 7y ago
I’m going to give the strong recommendation of NOT supplementing HGH ever unless your physician advises it. HGH is a potential trigger for cancer, onto of how it is a potent anabolic hormone that will enlarge all your organs. Unless you have certain medical conditions, there is very little reason for one needing HGH.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Karlozkiller 7y ago
HGH being Human Growth Hormone? I've taken that during puberty, as a medium to get to "normal size" In hindsight doctors say that might have been what triggered my chronic auto immune hepatitis (immune system attacks my own liver). They say basically they don't know and will probably never know, but it has been put forth as a possible trigger. Be careful.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

> I know that HGH + DHEA is the only drug from the list that has already proven to make healthy people younger. If you have any ready-researched and outlined sources or links for this, please post them here for reference. I know that we all can google, but I think linking here will help a lot of people, me included. HN articles are sometimes used as an online notepad of sorts, a repository of well researched and compiled information with built-in peer review from (hopefully, since they are on HN) somewhat competent even if amateur internet researchers.

nikkwong 7y ago
My guess is he is referring to this paper, which made headlines a few months ago: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13028 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13028
- socceroos 7y ago
  ...tested on 7 people.
jonplackett 7y ago
Is HGH + DHEA available to buy like a supplement? I would have presumed something containing hormones would be more regulated?
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Not in the U.S.
- JimboOmega 7y ago
  Not only is HGH regulated, it even is specifically addressed under law (in the US) that lead some to believe that even prescribing it off-label it is illegal. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HGH_controversies#Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HGH_controversies#Law
- xiphias2 7y ago
  No, as it requires strong medical supervision. Greg Fahy’s company is running experiments on humans approved by the FDA in his company in Los Angeles.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

waserwill 7y ago

Maybe you know this, but: Interpreting DNA methylation isn't straightforward. Since it's involved in gene regulation and cell differentiation, it's variable across cells. Due to regulatory networks, whether any particular methylated region is responsible for some outcome may also be unclear. That being said, if you have reason to believe that the knowledge will help, or are just curious, feel free

xiphias2 7y ago
sure, I understand that, but from what I saw the data isn’t that hard to process either, there are multiple R libraries actually that help, I’m currently also learning Genomics Analysis Harvard course at edx.org. I already found multiple papers published in the last few years that identified the important locations with methylation changes, and those targets map to known illneses. I tried to go to many doctors, but as they couldn’t measure any important changes with their toolboxes, they all sent me to psychologists. Thanks for offering help, I’m always interested in learning more about genomics, though right now my plan is to learn by reproducing some articles that I read that contain methylation data sets (after the Harvard course).

asdff 7y ago

chances are you had your dna genotyped, not sequenced, if it was cheap. measuring your methylation patterns is not going to be cheap as you need to sequence your dna twice to see what has actually been methylated. i'm not sure if any companies are offering a consumer targeted panel approach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisulfite_sequencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisulfite_sequencing

xiphias2 7y ago
I’m planning to do 450k or EPIC BEADS chip, not whole epigenom sequencing, as most researchers used 450k chip for finding the interesting methylation differences for people affected by high air pollution. I saw about $500/sample, but if it’s significantly more, it’s not a problem for me, my chronic disease isn’t going away anyways.

arrosenberg 7y ago

> I already got my DNA sequenced, but now that methylation can be measured cheaply as well, I don't see a reason why not to. Are they just quantifying how many methyl groups are attached to a piece of DNA? Methylation is a mechanism for site-specific in/activation, so I'm unclear (and curious) how this would be useful.

xiphias2 7y ago
Methylation is changes slowly throughout the life, the strongest predictor of age inside the body (that's why it's used as an aging clock). This also means that it may be the most important thing to learn to manipulate to defeat aging. Also it's the cause of many non-genetic chronic diseases that come with age. In summary it's a really really important thing to study. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock#Properties_of_Horvath's_clock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock#Properties_of... There are other hallmarks of aging though: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836174/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836174/

JimboOmega 7y ago

What's the difference between NMN vs NR? I take NR and they're chemically similar and I thought both are sold as anti-aging?

xiphias2 7y ago
They are similar, David Sinclair prefers NMN, but he doesn't have that strong preference.
chrisco255 7y ago
It's been claimed by some that NR is less stable in the bloodstream and doesn't boost NAD+ levels as much as NMN.

dpatrick86 7y ago

What makes you think NMN has been "proven to be safe?" That's a pretty strong standard to conform to. There's virtually no clinical work that's been done at all, for starters. A lot of genuine promising research in animals, but you also have this animal cancer model that suggests at least a little caution... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6448588/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6448588/

chrisco255 7y ago
NMN is a B-vitamin derivative.

erentz 7y ago

How does one go about measuring their methylation?

Medicalidiot 7y ago

I’m going to give the strong recommendation of NOT supplementing HGH ever unless your physician advises it. HGH is a potential trigger for cancer, onto of how it is a potent anabolic hormone that will enlarge all your organs. Unless you have certain medical conditions, there is very little reason for one needing HGH.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Karlozkiller 7y ago

HGH being Human Growth Hormone? I've taken that during puberty, as a medium to get to "normal size" In hindsight doctors say that might have been what triggered my chronic auto immune hepatitis (immune system attacks my own liver). They say basically they don't know and will probably never know, but it has been put forth as a possible trigger. Be careful.