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Clojure is always the wrong option to get into the principles of Lisp. * Clojure utilizes non-standard Lisp syntax like []{}, weird function declaration and di

by lerax 7y ago

Clojure is always the wrong option to get into the principles of Lisp. * Clojure utilizes non-standard Lisp syntax like []{}, weird function declaration and differ semantics of some forms (like cond usage, a powerful specie of switch-case of Lisp); * Clojure don't have cons pairs, neither car and cdr operators. Cons pairs are fundamental Data Structures to build compound data, very well explored in SICP and any LISP text book. * Clojure has the batteries of Java, so you will own a giant ecosystem to build complex software, but the evil parts of jvm will be inherited too. For the first contact with Lisp, this can be a unnecessary pain in the ass. I would recommend to start a LISP journey with Land of Lisp or Practical Common Lisp (PCL), both focused in Common Lisp. Land of Lisp has a lot of history about the beginning of Lisp and the author write the book in a fun way, lot of charges and xkcd-like humor. The book has a collection of game projects per chapter, one at time, teaching principles of the language. PCL it's very useful for understanding specific parts of the language, I used as complement when Land of Lisp was not sufficient (loop topic on PCL is very good).

tosh 7y ago
another angle: while Clojure is a Lisp with its own distinct flavor it gives you … * a large community of practitioners and professionals (great for asking questions, finding collaborators, …) * easy access to libraries in the js/jvm/.net ecosystems * a style that relies more on data and transformations of data (illuminating simplicity) in any case: it is worth digging deeper, one thing that kept me away was not knowing where to start (analysis paralysis). in hindsight picking any Lisp would have been great (instead of postponing). Find a thread and start pulling :) Rich Hickey’s talks were a great entry point for me https://github.com/tallesl/Rich-Hickey-fanclub https://github.com/tallesl/Rich-Hickey-fanclub e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8tNMsozo0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8tNMsozo0 (the “Simplicity Matters” keynote at Rails Conf 2012) edit: Land of Lisp is a great book as well
iLemming 7y ago
> Clojure is always the wrong option to get into the principles of Lisp. Yet, somehow out of all Lisp dialects, Clojure today remains the most pragmatic choice. Clojurescript is arguably the best alt-js choice, where Elm, Reason and Purescript for various reasons still can't reach its level of the simplicity and practicality. Clojure has immutability by default, which alone has number of great benefits. It is FP focused. It can be learned à la carte, which greatly simplifies process of learning. Clojure community is one of the friendliest and most diverse communities of developers. In comparison, Common Lisp today (sadly) becoming like Latin of programming languages. It is cool to learn it and know it, but in many circles the practicality of that knowledge remains somewhat questionable.

by lerax 7y ago

tosh 7y ago

another angle: while Clojure is a Lisp with its own distinct flavor it gives you … * a large community of practitioners and professionals (great for asking questions, finding collaborators, …) * easy access to libraries in the js/jvm/.net ecosystems * a style that relies more on data and transformations of data (illuminating simplicity) in any case: it is worth digging deeper, one thing that kept me away was not knowing where to start (analysis paralysis). in hindsight picking any Lisp would have been great (instead of postponing). Find a thread and start pulling :) Rich Hickey’s talks were a great entry point for me https://github.com/tallesl/Rich-Hickey-fanclub https://github.com/tallesl/Rich-Hickey-fanclub e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8tNMsozo0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8tNMsozo0 (the “Simplicity Matters” keynote at Rails Conf 2012) edit: Land of Lisp is a great book as well

iLemming 7y ago

> Clojure is always the wrong option to get into the principles of Lisp. Yet, somehow out of all Lisp dialects, Clojure today remains the most pragmatic choice. Clojurescript is arguably the best alt-js choice, where Elm, Reason and Purescript for various reasons still can't reach its level of the simplicity and practicality. Clojure has immutability by default, which alone has number of great benefits. It is FP focused. It can be learned à la carte, which greatly simplifies process of learning. Clojure community is one of the friendliest and most diverse communities of developers. In comparison, Common Lisp today (sadly) becoming like Latin of programming languages. It is cool to learn it and know it, but in many circles the practicality of that knowledge remains somewhat questionable.