4 ms·

Getting kids away from electronics is definitely important, and in some respects I find myself agreeing with multiple points from this: I absolutely agree that

Getting kids away from electronics is definitely important, and in some respects I find myself agreeing with multiple points from this: I absolutely agree that (in the USA) K-12 Education's basis should indeed be civic education, or the education required to create excellent citizens. I also absolutely agree that giving kids "technology" (as smartphones, tablets, Baby Shark, and the rest are known) can be unexpectedly close to giving them crack depending on the circumstances. However, there is one single thing with respect to computing I find relevant overlooked: I also think it's critical, in a civic sense, that most of the populace has a general understanding of what computation is and how computers "work." Not because I think everyone should code for a career, but because everyone should be able to have some understanding of debates about topics like encryption or automation, and in general have an a mental scaffolding that outlines the invisible infrastructure supporting the daily experiences of our times. In my view, absent this, too much of the citizenry will increasingly see "technology" in a way that verges on being a bit too close to "magic." I'm not sure what exactly this means for K-12 education, but I'm pretty sure it means that despite my antipathy for pervasive classroom "technology," there should still be some sort of very planned and mediated curriculum that exposes students to "computing."

steverb 7y ago
I agree, and having been the volunteer runner of my kid's middle school computer clubs (and occasional stand-in teacher) I think the best way to teach computing is not with computers, but with pencil, paper and classroom simulations. We've successfully implemented some very simple computers by letting various class members stand in for components, and we had one very good implementation of TCP/IP over middleschooler.
- K0SM0S 7y ago
  This is incredibly funny and probably an experience that most of these kids will remember — whenever they hear "TCP/IP", they'll think back to images, impressions of this day/class. I love such not-so-random acts of awesomeness! Kudos, steverb. Question: have you observed some of these kids then "level up" (over the next months, years; "days" is clearly too short to internalize I think) with regards to these topics, or general "abstractions", that made you think "hum, this is definitely very, very much like what I tried to teach with TCP/IP"?
- chewxy 7y ago
  Simon Peyton Jones gave a very good talk on this at Strange Loop 2018 - sadly it's falling to deaf ears
  - bokchoi 7y ago
    https://thestrangeloop.com/2018/shaping-our-childrens-education-in-computing.html https://thestrangeloop.com/2018/shaping-our-childrens-educat...
sansnomme 7y ago
The problem is that most schools do not provide a good education on how to be creators instead of passive consumers of technology. Learning to use tools such as Excel should be coupled with a tutorial on Visual Basic, beyond shallow here's-a-formula-here's-a-grid. Millennials and Gen Zs don't need the an entire class dedicated to how to use Khan Academy. They just need to know that Moocs and other free resources exist. Another flaw is that a lot of academic stuff are supposed to teach skills by proxy. E.g. learning how to use a search engine through writing a research essay. But most of the "academic search engines" and databases are frankly terrible. Take a look at most universities' library websites and see what they recommend. Most so-called academic journal tooling cannot hold a candle to e.g. Google Scholar. This is especially bad if you study humanities and is willing to just accept technology advice from your institution; you would be wasting hours on search tools with ancient UIs because your professor thinks Google is too "general".
- vkou 7y ago
  > Learning to use tools such as Excel should be coupled with a tutorial on Visual Basic, beyond shallow here's-a-formula-here's-a-grid. Excel is the tool of a creator. Just because it's not a traditional programming language does not mean that it is not an incredibly powerful computational tool, even without VBScript.
  - BlueTemplar 7y ago
    Yeah, I used to "program" in Excel : I loved how I could immediately see the changes in each "memory cell" when modifying an input or a formula...

steverb 7y ago

I agree, and having been the volunteer runner of my kid's middle school computer clubs (and occasional stand-in teacher) I think the best way to teach computing is not with computers, but with pencil, paper and classroom simulations. We've successfully implemented some very simple computers by letting various class members stand in for components, and we had one very good implementation of TCP/IP over middleschooler.

K0SM0S 7y ago
This is incredibly funny and probably an experience that most of these kids will remember — whenever they hear "TCP/IP", they'll think back to images, impressions of this day/class. I love such not-so-random acts of awesomeness! Kudos, steverb. Question: have you observed some of these kids then "level up" (over the next months, years; "days" is clearly too short to internalize I think) with regards to these topics, or general "abstractions", that made you think "hum, this is definitely very, very much like what I tried to teach with TCP/IP"?
chewxy 7y ago
Simon Peyton Jones gave a very good talk on this at Strange Loop 2018 - sadly it's falling to deaf ears
- bokchoi 7y ago
  https://thestrangeloop.com/2018/shaping-our-childrens-education-in-computing.html https://thestrangeloop.com/2018/shaping-our-childrens-educat...

sansnomme 7y ago

The problem is that most schools do not provide a good education on how to be creators instead of passive consumers of technology. Learning to use tools such as Excel should be coupled with a tutorial on Visual Basic, beyond shallow here's-a-formula-here's-a-grid. Millennials and Gen Zs don't need the an entire class dedicated to how to use Khan Academy. They just need to know that Moocs and other free resources exist. Another flaw is that a lot of academic stuff are supposed to teach skills by proxy. E.g. learning how to use a search engine through writing a research essay. But most of the "academic search engines" and databases are frankly terrible. Take a look at most universities' library websites and see what they recommend. Most so-called academic journal tooling cannot hold a candle to e.g. Google Scholar. This is especially bad if you study humanities and is willing to just accept technology advice from your institution; you would be wasting hours on search tools with ancient UIs because your professor thinks Google is too "general".

vkou 7y ago
> Learning to use tools such as Excel should be coupled with a tutorial on Visual Basic, beyond shallow here's-a-formula-here's-a-grid. Excel is the tool of a creator. Just because it's not a traditional programming language does not mean that it is not an incredibly powerful computational tool, even without VBScript.
- BlueTemplar 7y ago
  Yeah, I used to "program" in Excel : I loved how I could immediately see the changes in each "memory cell" when modifying an input or a formula...