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Let me ask you something: Is unconscious bias training the worst example of bullshit you have experienced in your professional life or the thing that has aggrav

Let me ask you something: Is unconscious bias training the worst example of bullshit you have experienced in your professional life or the thing that has aggravated you the most? Does that tell you anything about your unconscious biases? The point of the training is for companies to absolve themselves of culpability. If you act like a jerk after unconscious bias training you are on your own and the company hopes that it can't be blamed for it.

thestephen 7y ago
> Is unconscious bias training the worst example of bullshit you have experienced in your professional life or the thing that has aggravated you the most? I can't see the parent making this claim at all; are you sure that your interpretation is in good faith?
- izzydata 7y ago
  They might be unconsciously biased.
mc32 7y ago
Maybe it’s worth asking what other types of “bs” training they received at work. Maybe it’s one among many or maybe it’s the only one. We don’t know. That said, most training is about absolving the company of responsibility and putting it on you (security training for example). On the surface it would seem a good idea to train against harassment at work, but I’d be keen to know if it has an effect on behavior or is it the HR consequences that affect behavior more than the training, for example.
giggles_giggles 7y ago
I've seen studies[1][2] which indicate that unconscious racial bias training increases racist attitudes among those who are put through it. If that's true, unconscious bias training might be worse than bullshit, it might be actively harmful and counterproductive to its stated goals. 1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6524213/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6524213/ 2 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0950017017719841 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/095001701771984...
- behringer 7y ago
  Ah we're making a generation of Michael Scott Racists.
Iceland_jack 7y ago
> Does that tell you anything about your unconscious biases? There is so much to unpack about you here
- TheNorthman 7y ago
  > There is so much to unpack about you here This says so much about you
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
growlist 7y ago
I didn't act like a jerk before the training, never mind after :) I had training called 'cultural awareness' or similar at another company which was basically very similar material, but without the bogus claims that it was rooted in science. It's the latter that I object to - if they are going to enforce behavioural standards just be honest about it, rather than gaslighting people with this arrant nonsense that we're all unknowing bigots through some kind of original sin.
- bjourne 7y ago
  The bullshit I've had to endure during my career includes "You're one of our best paid engineers, so don't share salary information with your colleagues.", "NDA means you can not take a job at a competing company for six months after your resignation." and "It is important that your back is towards me (the manager) so that I can see your monitor and ensure that you are working at all times." My point is that even if unconscious bias training is 100% bullshit, it is among the most benign forms of business bullshit I've experienced. Thus, I cannot understand why it is so upsetting to so many.
  - growlist 7y ago
    > it is among the most benign forms of business bullshit I've experienced I'd argue the opposite actually - it's insidious, because any objection is liable to get you labelled a racist etc., and it's dangerous, because it's effectively telling you that no matter how hard you try you cannot escape being a racist (etc.). The latter is pretty much a textbook definition of gaslighting. I don't want my employer gaslighting me.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    What you describe is not bullshit, it's just straight up dishonesty and bullying. Bullshit is distinguished by the speaker not even caring if it's true. Usually it is meant to distract you from what you are not supposed to notice.
dang 7y ago
Please don't get personal about this. It only provokes others into doing worse, as happened downthread. Your comment would be just fine with just the second paragraph. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ncmncm 7y ago
  The second paragraph is the useful part of the comment. You seem to be reacting to the presence of the word "jerk", entirely ignoring the context.
  - dang 7y ago
    Yes, we agree. The comment would be fine with just the second paragraph.
belorn 7y ago
If my job required me to go to a unconscious bias training I would treat it the same is if they forced me to go to church. I am sure companies would like it if everyone would treat each other as kin and share the religious experience, and the actually hours itself would unlikely be the worst experience compared to some of the worst days at the office, but I would still resign if they did it. Call it irrationality. I would simply no longer feel that there were any mutual trust and thus I would not feel safe in continuing working there. I wonder how many companies can survive long term if employees don't trust their employer and the employer don't trust its employees.

thestephen 7y ago

> Is unconscious bias training the worst example of bullshit you have experienced in your professional life or the thing that has aggravated you the most? I can't see the parent making this claim at all; are you sure that your interpretation is in good faith?

izzydata 7y ago
They might be unconsciously biased.

mc32 7y ago

Maybe it’s worth asking what other types of “bs” training they received at work. Maybe it’s one among many or maybe it’s the only one. We don’t know. That said, most training is about absolving the company of responsibility and putting it on you (security training for example). On the surface it would seem a good idea to train against harassment at work, but I’d be keen to know if it has an effect on behavior or is it the HR consequences that affect behavior more than the training, for example.

giggles_giggles 7y ago

I've seen studies[1][2] which indicate that unconscious racial bias training increases racist attitudes among those who are put through it. If that's true, unconscious bias training might be worse than bullshit, it might be actively harmful and counterproductive to its stated goals. 1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6524213/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6524213/ 2 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0950017017719841 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/095001701771984...

behringer 7y ago
Ah we're making a generation of Michael Scott Racists.

Iceland_jack 7y ago

> Does that tell you anything about your unconscious biases? There is so much to unpack about you here

TheNorthman 7y ago
> There is so much to unpack about you here This says so much about you
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

growlist 7y ago

I didn't act like a jerk before the training, never mind after :) I had training called 'cultural awareness' or similar at another company which was basically very similar material, but without the bogus claims that it was rooted in science. It's the latter that I object to - if they are going to enforce behavioural standards just be honest about it, rather than gaslighting people with this arrant nonsense that we're all unknowing bigots through some kind of original sin.

bjourne 7y ago
The bullshit I've had to endure during my career includes "You're one of our best paid engineers, so don't share salary information with your colleagues.", "NDA means you can not take a job at a competing company for six months after your resignation." and "It is important that your back is towards me (the manager) so that I can see your monitor and ensure that you are working at all times." My point is that even if unconscious bias training is 100% bullshit, it is among the most benign forms of business bullshit I've experienced. Thus, I cannot understand why it is so upsetting to so many.
- growlist 7y ago
  > it is among the most benign forms of business bullshit I've experienced I'd argue the opposite actually - it's insidious, because any objection is liable to get you labelled a racist etc., and it's dangerous, because it's effectively telling you that no matter how hard you try you cannot escape being a racist (etc.). The latter is pretty much a textbook definition of gaslighting. I don't want my employer gaslighting me.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  What you describe is not bullshit, it's just straight up dishonesty and bullying. Bullshit is distinguished by the speaker not even caring if it's true. Usually it is meant to distract you from what you are not supposed to notice.

dang 7y ago

Please don't get personal about this. It only provokes others into doing worse, as happened downthread. Your comment would be just fine with just the second paragraph. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

ncmncm 7y ago
The second paragraph is the useful part of the comment. You seem to be reacting to the presence of the word "jerk", entirely ignoring the context.
- dang 7y ago
  Yes, we agree. The comment would be fine with just the second paragraph.

belorn 7y ago

If my job required me to go to a unconscious bias training I would treat it the same is if they forced me to go to church. I am sure companies would like it if everyone would treat each other as kin and share the religious experience, and the actually hours itself would unlikely be the worst experience compared to some of the worst days at the office, but I would still resign if they did it. Call it irrationality. I would simply no longer feel that there were any mutual trust and thus I would not feel safe in continuing working there. I wonder how many companies can survive long term if employees don't trust their employer and the employer don't trust its employees.