5 ms·

I was hoping the article would discuss the issue of the visibly shifting foundations of many of the houses, which most of us find delightful as spectators but m

I was hoping the article would discuss the issue of the visibly shifting foundations of many of the houses, which most of us find delightful as spectators but must be terrifying for property owners. It's impressive the houses are still here after 300 years, having been built on a bog. Even more impressive how many appear to be in otherwise excellent condition given their lean angle! I have to imagine many societies would have demolished and rebuilt them long ago (boo). In the same vein, I've also read that the forward tilt many houses exhibit was intentional- to make it easier to hoist goods to the upper floors.

kalium_xyz 7y ago
People just rebuild everything but the front if the house. Most classical gragtenpanden have modern insides
- alamortsubite 7y ago
  > Most classical gragtenpanden have modern insides Yes, and many of these beautifully-renovated interiors are visible from the street! (Sorry, Amsterdamer, it's just impossible not to notice when walking by.) The point is, though, that it appears common for these renovations to be carried out despite egregious settling of a house's foundation.
  - nate_meurer 7y ago
    Don't apologize, it's perfectly acceptable and even expected that you gaze into people's houses while passing by. It's a Dutch thing; front windows are large and heavy curtains are rare. I look in everyone's house when I walk by, and wave at everyone I see inside. I always get a wave in return. My kids count cats on sills. I spend considerable time in my in-laws' front room waving at passers-by, and we've even been known to go out and join someone on a walk. I've heard it said that the open front window thing originated as a backlash against the heavy curtains that became common during German occupation in WWII. I don't know if there's any truth to that.
    - mercer 7y ago
      I've heard it goes further back to a Protestant nothing-to-hide mindset, but I can't be arsed to find supporting evidence...
    - Matticus_Rex 7y ago
      >I look in everyone's house when I walk by, and wave at everyone I see inside. I always get a wave in return. My kids count cats on sills. I spend considerable time in my in-laws' front room waving at passers-by, and we've even been known to go out and join someone on a walk. Wait, that's acceptable? Heck yeah! I'm moving there in May (though I've been a number of times) and that's going to be super awesome and fun. Of course, getting my wife to reciprocate and not put up a heavy front curtain will probably be impossible...
      - nate_meurer 7y ago
        I do see a lot of shear curtains, the sort of light gauzy material that's easier to see out of than inward. Heavy, opaque curtains tend to draw a bit of gentle curiosity, as though the occupants might have a reason to hide their stuff. It's not a big deal either way, but living in a house without a clear front window would be terribly depressing for me. I bet it'll be easier for your wife to accept once you get to know your neighbors. Most Dutch neighborhoods are intensely pedestrian, and waving through front windows buys you consistent contact with your neighbors for little effort.
- Aaargh20318 7y ago
  > gragtenpanden Grachtenpanden
- jbverschoor 7y ago
  Modern yes, but thankfully a lot still have the original ceilings and woodwork.
rrmoelker 7y ago
The city of Amsterdam keeps track of the "sink rate" of fixed points on buildings.It's a good place to take a look if you ever plan on buying something in the city: https://data.amsterdam.nl/data/?modus=kaart&center=52.3666226%2C4.9037224&lagen=mbz%3A1&legenda=true&zoom=14 https://data.amsterdam.nl/data/?modus=kaart&center=52.366622... note, in Dutch, but the color coding should make it clear.
CalRobert 7y ago
"demolished and rebuilt them long ago (boo)." I mean, I like heritage as much as the next guy but as the owner of a rinky dink tiny thatched cottage that would cost 100k to really fix up or maybe 30k to replace with a much more comfortable, safer, cheaper to heat, modern dwelling with doors where I'm not whacking my forehead - you can hardly blame people. Oh, the lead paint isn't awesome either. I mean, I'm just a crazy eccentric, but as actual structures to live in old houses, especially the ones the poor lived in, can be kind of horrible.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  I suspect that the canal houses weren't where the poor lived, though...
  - thijsvandien 7y ago
    They surely don't live there now either.
- boudewijnrempt 7y ago
  The cellars of my house date back to around 1000, and gradually, the higher you get, the newer the floors are. The roof is C19. The front facade was once removed and replaced, I guess around C18. We still have the sockets and the pipes for gas light, though, of course, they've been superceded by electric wire, three times at least. It's still a pretty good place to live :-)
flingo 7y ago
If you're building in a bog, you can maintain stability if you don't try to dig it out nearly as much as you would land. Also taking buoyancy into account. > I've also read that the forward tilt many houses exhibit was intentional- to make it easier to hoist goods to the upper floors. I always thought that was just Dutch people being Dutch and getting more floorspace without buying more land. Any of the skyhooks I've seen just extend out above the top floor. I suppose there's more risk of breaking windows if the load swings around as it goes straight up though.
- IkmoIkmo 7y ago
  There's typically one person on the street, one person at the window. There's one rope that goes up-down on the joist, and one rope which the person below can pull away from the home as well as use to stabilise.
neor 7y ago
There is a much bigger risk than sink rates. The houses have been built on wooden piles, and with the recent drought in the Netherlands the ground water level fell. If the top of the wooden piles were exposed to air, they start rotting. A few years from now we might see a lot of old homes needing new piles or new foundations.

kalium_xyz 7y ago

People just rebuild everything but the front if the house. Most classical gragtenpanden have modern insides

alamortsubite 7y ago
> Most classical gragtenpanden have modern insides Yes, and many of these beautifully-renovated interiors are visible from the street! (Sorry, Amsterdamer, it's just impossible not to notice when walking by.) The point is, though, that it appears common for these renovations to be carried out despite egregious settling of a house's foundation.
- nate_meurer 7y ago
  Don't apologize, it's perfectly acceptable and even expected that you gaze into people's houses while passing by. It's a Dutch thing; front windows are large and heavy curtains are rare. I look in everyone's house when I walk by, and wave at everyone I see inside. I always get a wave in return. My kids count cats on sills. I spend considerable time in my in-laws' front room waving at passers-by, and we've even been known to go out and join someone on a walk. I've heard it said that the open front window thing originated as a backlash against the heavy curtains that became common during German occupation in WWII. I don't know if there's any truth to that.
  - mercer 7y ago
    I've heard it goes further back to a Protestant nothing-to-hide mindset, but I can't be arsed to find supporting evidence...
  - Matticus_Rex 7y ago
    >I look in everyone's house when I walk by, and wave at everyone I see inside. I always get a wave in return. My kids count cats on sills. I spend considerable time in my in-laws' front room waving at passers-by, and we've even been known to go out and join someone on a walk. Wait, that's acceptable? Heck yeah! I'm moving there in May (though I've been a number of times) and that's going to be super awesome and fun. Of course, getting my wife to reciprocate and not put up a heavy front curtain will probably be impossible...
    - nate_meurer 7y ago
      I do see a lot of shear curtains, the sort of light gauzy material that's easier to see out of than inward. Heavy, opaque curtains tend to draw a bit of gentle curiosity, as though the occupants might have a reason to hide their stuff. It's not a big deal either way, but living in a house without a clear front window would be terribly depressing for me. I bet it'll be easier for your wife to accept once you get to know your neighbors. Most Dutch neighborhoods are intensely pedestrian, and waving through front windows buys you consistent contact with your neighbors for little effort.
Aaargh20318 7y ago
> gragtenpanden Grachtenpanden
jbverschoor 7y ago
Modern yes, but thankfully a lot still have the original ceilings and woodwork.

rrmoelker 7y ago

The city of Amsterdam keeps track of the "sink rate" of fixed points on buildings.It's a good place to take a look if you ever plan on buying something in the city: https://data.amsterdam.nl/data/?modus=kaart&center=52.3666226%2C4.9037224&lagen=mbz%3A1&legenda=true&zoom=14 https://data.amsterdam.nl/data/?modus=kaart&center=52.366622... note, in Dutch, but the color coding should make it clear.

CalRobert 7y ago

"demolished and rebuilt them long ago (boo)." I mean, I like heritage as much as the next guy but as the owner of a rinky dink tiny thatched cottage that would cost 100k to really fix up or maybe 30k to replace with a much more comfortable, safer, cheaper to heat, modern dwelling with doors where I'm not whacking my forehead - you can hardly blame people. Oh, the lead paint isn't awesome either. I mean, I'm just a crazy eccentric, but as actual structures to live in old houses, especially the ones the poor lived in, can be kind of horrible.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
I suspect that the canal houses weren't where the poor lived, though...
- thijsvandien 7y ago
  They surely don't live there now either.
boudewijnrempt 7y ago
The cellars of my house date back to around 1000, and gradually, the higher you get, the newer the floors are. The roof is C19. The front facade was once removed and replaced, I guess around C18. We still have the sockets and the pipes for gas light, though, of course, they've been superceded by electric wire, three times at least. It's still a pretty good place to live :-)

flingo 7y ago

If you're building in a bog, you can maintain stability if you don't try to dig it out nearly as much as you would land. Also taking buoyancy into account. > I've also read that the forward tilt many houses exhibit was intentional- to make it easier to hoist goods to the upper floors. I always thought that was just Dutch people being Dutch and getting more floorspace without buying more land. Any of the skyhooks I've seen just extend out above the top floor. I suppose there's more risk of breaking windows if the load swings around as it goes straight up though.

IkmoIkmo 7y ago
There's typically one person on the street, one person at the window. There's one rope that goes up-down on the joist, and one rope which the person below can pull away from the home as well as use to stabilise.

neor 7y ago

There is a much bigger risk than sink rates. The houses have been built on wooden piles, and with the recent drought in the Netherlands the ground water level fell. If the top of the wooden piles were exposed to air, they start rotting. A few years from now we might see a lot of old homes needing new piles or new foundations.