3 ms·

> Clever idea. I'm curious why you decided to allow games with DLC though. That's technically an In-App Purchase. I get it's not a Consumable IAP, but it's sti

> Clever idea. I'm curious why you decided to allow games with DLC though. That's technically an In-App Purchase. I get it's not a Consumable IAP, but it's still IAP. That's why I called it "No-Bullshit Games" instead of "No-IAP games" :P > Ads you can pay a few bucks to remove That's fine by me. > then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design) That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. That said, it doesn't sound nearly as annoying as some of the crap I've installed. > yeah, I'm hoping mine doesn't come across as obnoxious (obviously it wouldn't qualify for the No-Bullshit list, though). Oh, I didn't read this far before starting the reply :P I hope so too, and yeah, it probably wouldn't qualify. Good luck with the game, I hope it goes well!

dangoor 7y ago
>> then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design) > That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. That said, it doesn't sound nearly as annoying as some of the crap I've installed. I realize that there is an editorial aspect to this, and I think that's a valuable thing. As with any editorial choice, there will always be these interesting questions at the boundary between acceptable and not. Where do you fall on Fortnite? Fortnite makes raftloads of money, but doesn't require any purchases to win or give advantages in play to purchasers. They make their money primarily from cosmetic add-ons. People who play a lot for free can still claim new skins and such. I would argue that Fortnite is actually No BS, but I can also see how it's borderline because you could spend virtually unlimited amounts of money in it. But is that the dividing line?
- StavrosK 7y ago
  You're exactly right that there's an editorial line, so this list reflects my personal beliefs and classification on BS/noBS. I think cosmetics are fine, since you can fully enjoy the game without them, and if a game ONLY has cosmetics, it can go on the list (there's even a dropdown item for that in the submission form).
  - dangoor 7y ago
    Cool. FWIW, that sounds like a good line between BS/No BS to me!
cableshaft 7y ago
> That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. It probably won't be too much of a FOMO thing really. The game is mainly just a "see how far you get" game, kind of like a Flappy Bird or Temple Run type game, but choice based, not dexterity based. If you choose poorly you can lose pretty quickly, but then you can just start the game over again if you want. But if you're like "wow, this is the furthest I've been, let's go for it this time!" or whatever, and you burned through the items that you earned during the course of the game, well you could just see if you get lucky and get farther, or you can spend money to get a bundle of items help ensure you survive a bit longer. But the game is designed that if you keep making the right choices you can continue indefinitely (in practice, though, you will almost certainly pick wrong enough times at some point... I've simulated it, and with 100,000+ simulations, it doesn't get further than a certain point, and it's super rare to get that high). Personally it's not something I ever spend money on in these things, but I'm pretty anti-IAP for my own personal use and have rarely spent money on IAP in general, but I enjoy playing the game just to see how far I can get just with the items I earn during the game, so I'm hoping even some players that are anti-IAP will enjoy the game anyway. Because ultimately I'm trying to make a fun game, just add some way to make some money while not charging up front for it.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Oh, I see. Yeah, that sounds reasonably okay. Just don't add any of the crappy "pay to play again or wait 39 minutes" mechanics, those are a guaranteed uninstall for me.
  - cableshaft 7y ago
    I wasn't even considering it. It bugs me too. It's nice to hear what people who are annoyed by these types of games like and dislike though, so thanks for pointing it out.
- nottorp 7y ago
  > If you choose poorly you can lose pretty quickly, but then you can just start the game over again if you want. But if you're like "wow, this is the furthest I've been, let's go for it this time!" or whatever, and you burned through the items that you earned during the course of the game, well you could just see if you get lucky and get farther, or you can spend money to get a bundle of items help ensure you survive a bit longer. ... actually, my assumption will be that you designed the game to require purchasing those items, and I won't even install it :) It's not only that I have to believe you when you say they're not required, but even if i do, I have to believe you won't sneakily - or not so sneakily - change things in the next update. It was bad enough when EA bought Popcap and my paid for Plants vs Zombies turned into some bullshit with IAPs.

dangoor 7y ago

>> then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design) > That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. That said, it doesn't sound nearly as annoying as some of the crap I've installed. I realize that there is an editorial aspect to this, and I think that's a valuable thing. As with any editorial choice, there will always be these interesting questions at the boundary between acceptable and not. Where do you fall on Fortnite? Fortnite makes raftloads of money, but doesn't require any purchases to win or give advantages in play to purchasers. They make their money primarily from cosmetic add-ons. People who play a lot for free can still claim new skins and such. I would argue that Fortnite is actually No BS, but I can also see how it's borderline because you could spend virtually unlimited amounts of money in it. But is that the dividing line?

StavrosK 7y ago
You're exactly right that there's an editorial line, so this list reflects my personal beliefs and classification on BS/noBS. I think cosmetics are fine, since you can fully enjoy the game without them, and if a game ONLY has cosmetics, it can go on the list (there's even a dropdown item for that in the submission form).
- dangoor 7y ago
  Cool. FWIW, that sounds like a good line between BS/No BS to me!

cableshaft 7y ago

> That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. It probably won't be too much of a FOMO thing really. The game is mainly just a "see how far you get" game, kind of like a Flappy Bird or Temple Run type game, but choice based, not dexterity based. If you choose poorly you can lose pretty quickly, but then you can just start the game over again if you want. But if you're like "wow, this is the furthest I've been, let's go for it this time!" or whatever, and you burned through the items that you earned during the course of the game, well you could just see if you get lucky and get farther, or you can spend money to get a bundle of items help ensure you survive a bit longer. But the game is designed that if you keep making the right choices you can continue indefinitely (in practice, though, you will almost certainly pick wrong enough times at some point... I've simulated it, and with 100,000+ simulations, it doesn't get further than a certain point, and it's super rare to get that high). Personally it's not something I ever spend money on in these things, but I'm pretty anti-IAP for my own personal use and have rarely spent money on IAP in general, but I enjoy playing the game just to see how far I can get just with the items I earn during the game, so I'm hoping even some players that are anti-IAP will enjoy the game anyway. Because ultimately I'm trying to make a fun game, just add some way to make some money while not charging up front for it.

StavrosK 7y ago
Oh, I see. Yeah, that sounds reasonably okay. Just don't add any of the crappy "pay to play again or wait 39 minutes" mechanics, those are a guaranteed uninstall for me.
- cableshaft 7y ago
  I wasn't even considering it. It bugs me too. It's nice to hear what people who are annoyed by these types of games like and dislike though, so thanks for pointing it out.
nottorp 7y ago
> If you choose poorly you can lose pretty quickly, but then you can just start the game over again if you want. But if you're like "wow, this is the furthest I've been, let's go for it this time!" or whatever, and you burned through the items that you earned during the course of the game, well you could just see if you get lucky and get farther, or you can spend money to get a bundle of items help ensure you survive a bit longer. ... actually, my assumption will be that you designed the game to require purchasing those items, and I won't even install it :) It's not only that I have to believe you when you say they're not required, but even if i do, I have to believe you won't sneakily - or not so sneakily - change things in the next update. It was bad enough when EA bought Popcap and my paid for Plants vs Zombies turned into some bullshit with IAPs.