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The temps need to be below freezing for snow making to work. One can easily see the changes over last 20 years by looking at the ski mountains on the East Coas

The temps need to be below freezing for snow making to work. One can easily see the changes over last 20 years by looking at the ski mountains on the East Coast. The skiing season now is late January to mid-April.

hannob 7y ago
They did a ski worldcup on artificial snow in Dresden recently when it was 10 degree. The snow was delivered via trucks.
- notyourday 7y ago
  Sure, if one is to spend millions of dollars it is possible. It is just not financially possible to do a multi-months season via snow delivery. It is even painful with snow guns.
matsemann 7y ago
No, one can now produce snow in ambient temperatures up to 25C. It gets a bit slushy, though, but when the snow heap is big enough it gets almost self sustained. It just costs a lot and is not environmentally friendly to use so much power to cool down the water in the snow cannons. Locally they are experimenting on heat pump technology, and to use the excess heat to something useful. Then it might be more viable. Probably cannot do it in too high temperatures, but a bit above freezing should work. Here, they have also experimented on building a gigantic heap of snow at the end of the season, and covering it so it doesn't melt too much during summer. Then it's easier to lay artificial snow on top in the fall, or the natural snow that occurs doesn't just melt when hitting the ground.
- notyourday 7y ago
  If your ambient temperature is 25C, then your ground temperature is going to be way too high. It is simply not possible to cover 4-5 mile runs with 10" base at above freezing and keep it there for 3-4 months. Even if you do, first rain is going to chew through your base, not to mention the totally regular damage from skiers and snowboarders.
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    Ground temp might not be that high if you're just talking about daily swings, which is how things have been going here in the east. Brutal cold followed by swings well above zero and rain.
cmrdporcupine 7y ago
Unless you're Killington with the most insane snow making system in North America, capable of opening in October and closing in May.
volkl48 7y ago
So, no climate skepticism here, but I'll push back on the idea that (to date) things have changed that drastically on the East Coast (USA). East Coast skiing has always been a pretty marginal operation, especially when we aren't talking the most northern/high elevation places. There were numerous years in the pre-snowmaking era where large numbers of East Coast ski areas barely operated. Repeated bad years for natural snow in the late 70s/early 80s drove a ton of smaller places into closing down. And there's all kinds of old pictures of the crazy things attempted to save snow before they could make it. Fences to try to catch it from blowing into the woods, giant vacuums to try to get it from the woods and put it on the trails, etc. Whole crews out in summer picking up every small rock and stump so they could open trails with as few inches of snow as possible. -------------- And back then, conditions were expected to be poor a lot of the time. Skiers today expect wall to wall snow on the runs and a large portion of them to be open just about every day during the main season.
- jnwatson 7y ago
  If you go back to the early 20th century, several Vermont resorts were forced to close due to too much snow. The problem with East coast skiing is that it won’t take that much more warming to make them economically unviable.
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  I was going to say exactly this but have to admit being put off by the potential for downvotes. Hell, I grew up in central Alberta, 1970s and 80s. Latitude 53. Winter time temperatures drop to the -30C range all the time. And yet even there you could not rely on consistent snow cover at the little hills around. Many Christmases well above zero with the lake unfrozen followed by a January of -25C. Back then the little hills around there were also all closing because people were now able to drive or fly further and go to Jasper and Banff etc. to ski instead of hitting their local hills. And I also remember many days skiing on solid ice in Jasper, which is pretty damned cold, high elevation. Most of North America is a continental climate. It has always been highly variable. It is getting more so. Climate change is real and is impacting this industry, but I feel like the really bad effects are still coming. But even when it comes it's not like the winters will be universally _warm_ -- they will be highly volatile, with intense blizzards one day followed by rain later. That's the pattern this year already. I'm off to Revelstoke to ski in a week and a half. Absolute craploads of snow there this year, while here in the east it has been awful. But last year it wasn't that great out there but was pretty good in the east, considering.

hannob 7y ago

They did a ski worldcup on artificial snow in Dresden recently when it was 10 degree. The snow was delivered via trucks.

notyourday 7y ago
Sure, if one is to spend millions of dollars it is possible. It is just not financially possible to do a multi-months season via snow delivery. It is even painful with snow guns.

matsemann 7y ago

No, one can now produce snow in ambient temperatures up to 25C. It gets a bit slushy, though, but when the snow heap is big enough it gets almost self sustained. It just costs a lot and is not environmentally friendly to use so much power to cool down the water in the snow cannons. Locally they are experimenting on heat pump technology, and to use the excess heat to something useful. Then it might be more viable. Probably cannot do it in too high temperatures, but a bit above freezing should work. Here, they have also experimented on building a gigantic heap of snow at the end of the season, and covering it so it doesn't melt too much during summer. Then it's easier to lay artificial snow on top in the fall, or the natural snow that occurs doesn't just melt when hitting the ground.

notyourday 7y ago
If your ambient temperature is 25C, then your ground temperature is going to be way too high. It is simply not possible to cover 4-5 mile runs with 10" base at above freezing and keep it there for 3-4 months. Even if you do, first rain is going to chew through your base, not to mention the totally regular damage from skiers and snowboarders.
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  Ground temp might not be that high if you're just talking about daily swings, which is how things have been going here in the east. Brutal cold followed by swings well above zero and rain.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago

Unless you're Killington with the most insane snow making system in North America, capable of opening in October and closing in May.

volkl48 7y ago

So, no climate skepticism here, but I'll push back on the idea that (to date) things have changed that drastically on the East Coast (USA). East Coast skiing has always been a pretty marginal operation, especially when we aren't talking the most northern/high elevation places. There were numerous years in the pre-snowmaking era where large numbers of East Coast ski areas barely operated. Repeated bad years for natural snow in the late 70s/early 80s drove a ton of smaller places into closing down. And there's all kinds of old pictures of the crazy things attempted to save snow before they could make it. Fences to try to catch it from blowing into the woods, giant vacuums to try to get it from the woods and put it on the trails, etc. Whole crews out in summer picking up every small rock and stump so they could open trails with as few inches of snow as possible. -------------- And back then, conditions were expected to be poor a lot of the time. Skiers today expect wall to wall snow on the runs and a large portion of them to be open just about every day during the main season.

jnwatson 7y ago
If you go back to the early 20th century, several Vermont resorts were forced to close due to too much snow. The problem with East coast skiing is that it won’t take that much more warming to make them economically unviable.
cmrdporcupine 7y ago
I was going to say exactly this but have to admit being put off by the potential for downvotes. Hell, I grew up in central Alberta, 1970s and 80s. Latitude 53. Winter time temperatures drop to the -30C range all the time. And yet even there you could not rely on consistent snow cover at the little hills around. Many Christmases well above zero with the lake unfrozen followed by a January of -25C. Back then the little hills around there were also all closing because people were now able to drive or fly further and go to Jasper and Banff etc. to ski instead of hitting their local hills. And I also remember many days skiing on solid ice in Jasper, which is pretty damned cold, high elevation. Most of North America is a continental climate. It has always been highly variable. It is getting more so. Climate change is real and is impacting this industry, but I feel like the really bad effects are still coming. But even when it comes it's not like the winters will be universally _warm_ -- they will be highly volatile, with intense blizzards one day followed by rain later. That's the pattern this year already. I'm off to Revelstoke to ski in a week and a half. Absolute craploads of snow there this year, while here in the east it has been awful. But last year it wasn't that great out there but was pretty good in the east, considering.