9 ms·

So they'll just convert the lower altitude resorts to more "summer" activities like hiking and mountain biking.

by thresh 7y ago

cardamomo 7y ago
Of course people will adapt, but there is also a cultural loss here.
- seqastian 7y ago
  The cultural loss of not building a space station on every hill ..
- easytiger 7y ago
  There is also an arrogance that the past 120 years represents how geological earth should have remained forever.
  - gbrown 7y ago
    Forever? Nah, but I’d prefer if things changed at the usual pace - slow enough for species to adapt and evolve without catastrophic extinctions.
    - easytiger 7y ago
      I don't think having to find a new ski resort is catastrophic. People have only been going to ski resorts for 100 years
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >I don't think having to find a new ski resort is catastrophic. As if the worst thing is the loss of ski resorts? How about going finding a new place to live, cultivate, and the huge casualties in human life, animals, etc?
        easytiger 7y ago
        Ironically skiresorts aren't a haven of biodiversity
      - gbrown 7y ago
        “I’m really bummed about the way it makes my arm look” said the stage 4 terminal skin cancer patient. Hint: it’s not actually about the skiing.
    - AllegedAlec 7y ago
      > Nah, but I’d prefer if things changed at the usual pace - slow enough for species to adapt and evolve without catastrophic extinctions. Why do you think that evolution happens like that? Extinction events are a major driver in evolution, and as far as I know, Punctuated Equilibrium Theory still has quite a bit of traction; many models (especially simulations) seem to show that this is what quite often happens.
      - gbrown 7y ago
        Well, it doesn’t always, but I’d prefer not to live during the equivalent of a self imposed asteroid impact kthxbye. Like, sure, mass extinctions happen... but this one is totally optional.
  - me_me_me 7y ago
    Who the F cares how earth should look geologically. I want earth to stay habitable for humans. If earth wants to boil in greenhouses natural we should do everything possible to stop this natural process.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      I think it's simple. Some people don't have climate change problems affect them and lack human empathy. For them the problem is something they read about - not something real. If they lived in one of the directly affected areas from climate change, and suffered the consequences, they'd change the tune regarding "why expect earth to look like this geologically", etc.
      - easytiger 7y ago
        The current benchmark for climate change problems is "were things different 10-15 years ago". Yea, things have always changed. It's why weather stable regions are historically more habitable than those which aren't.
        coldtea 7y ago
        >The current benchmark for climate change problems is "were things different 10-15 years ago". Only if one has their head in the sand. Historically higher temperatures year after year, massive loss of arctic ice, etc. All of those things weren't "always changing", except if you go back to thousands to millions of years. And even then, they didn't get there with the same rate of change we have now.
        me_me_me 7y ago
        Yes exactly, all evidence point to some alarming patterns. The hottest year in recorded history, was it 7/10 were in the last 10 year. Climate changes over hundred thousands years. The rapid industrialization caused rapid heating in hundred years! This is a fact and trying to dispute it is akin to sticking you head in sand. Anyhow the whole line of its natural so we should ignore it is crazy to me. Cancer is natural and yet people treat it. It doesn't matter if global warming is, or isn't natural, or its a mix. We need to stabilize it to suit us before we go back to having total population counted in millions or so.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Because it was very different in the past 2000 years?
- toper-centage 7y ago
  Ostentatious, wasteful winter sports are easily the least of my worries here.
  - cardamomo 7y ago
    Sure, I get that. But my bigger point isn't so much about Alpine skiing. To say simply that people will adapt to new climates belies the loss that people experience with the destruction of their home landscapes and ecosystems. In understanding this, I find the concept of solastalgia to be useful. From Wikipedia: "Solastalgia (/ˌsɒləˈstældʒə/) is a neologism that describes a form of mental or existential distress caused by environmental change. In many cases this is in reference to global climate change, but more localized events such as volcanic eruptions, drought or destructive mining techniques can cause solastalgia as well."
- thresh 7y ago
  I don't think there's much culture lost in moving a few ski lifts to a higher altitude place.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Out here in the East, the ski hills are often already in the highest altitude spots for hundreds of miles around.
hannob 7y ago
No, they will use snow canons and artificial snow as long as they can and will do everything they can to deny that this is happening. That is pretty much what you could observe there for many years. (Though admittedly "just" convert to summer activities sounds much easier than it is. Skiing was something that was always confined to few areas, you can hike just as well in many more places.)
- notyourday 7y ago
  The temps need to be below freezing for snow making to work. One can easily see the changes over last 20 years by looking at the ski mountains on the East Coast. The skiing season now is late January to mid-April.
  - hannob 7y ago
    They did a ski worldcup on artificial snow in Dresden recently when it was 10 degree. The snow was delivered via trucks.
    - notyourday 7y ago
      Sure, if one is to spend millions of dollars it is possible. It is just not financially possible to do a multi-months season via snow delivery. It is even painful with snow guns.
  - matsemann 7y ago
    No, one can now produce snow in ambient temperatures up to 25C. It gets a bit slushy, though, but when the snow heap is big enough it gets almost self sustained. It just costs a lot and is not environmentally friendly to use so much power to cool down the water in the snow cannons. Locally they are experimenting on heat pump technology, and to use the excess heat to something useful. Then it might be more viable. Probably cannot do it in too high temperatures, but a bit above freezing should work. Here, they have also experimented on building a gigantic heap of snow at the end of the season, and covering it so it doesn't melt too much during summer. Then it's easier to lay artificial snow on top in the fall, or the natural snow that occurs doesn't just melt when hitting the ground.
Sharlin 7y ago
Meh, they can use snow cannons. And waste a lot and lot of electricity in the process.
mtberatwork 7y ago
> activities like hiking and mountain biking While I would love to see more bike parks, I think most mountain resorts would shutter if these were the only activities bringing in revenue throughout the year.
wayoutthere 7y ago
Those activities don't make nearly as much money as skiing. There are a whole lot of places that are great for mountain biking and hiking, but very few locations with the elevation and precipitation required to support a good ski resort. Somewhat paradoxically, climate change could make some areas of the Rockies and Sierras more snowy. But depletion of snow in other areas would cause the areas with snow to become even more expensive -- and they're already pretty exclusive today.
- thresh 7y ago
  Even the bloomberg article states: > Already, the summer generates 60% of the tourism intake, according to Garmisch Mayor Sigrid Meierhofer. Indeed, hiking doesnt require you to spend moneys on rental equipment. It's a bit different for mountain biking - most of the time you need lift passes to enjoy the mountain. And with the explosion of electric bikes rentals in the last years, and there are lots of growth opportunities for generating revenue there as well. And it's not only about hiking/biking, of course. Of course, having more places to ski is better than having less places - my main concern is people and their jobs, and not specific resort activities per se.
ehnto 7y ago
Mountain biking is already on a huge uptick across the world, convenient timing I guess. As an avid rider, to use the terminology, I'm super stoked. We didn't previously have "bike parks" in Australia, but now we have a bunch. With a few lift access bike parks being developed on the ski resorts. However, a fairly bitter pill to swallow this year was some parks I was looking forward to riding being caught in the Australian bushfires. One was a local park, and I look forward to helping rebuild it once it's safe. It's a scary prospect for that to become the norm. Nature is dear to me. Being able to go riding in the forest is a pillar of my health, mental and physical. I have consistently been unable to ride this summer due to heatwaves and bushfire smoke. Occasionally I would make poor judgement, and leave to ride when it was clear only to be smoked out on the trails an hour later, from fires hundreds of kilometers away.
fuzzy2 7y ago
I prefer not to go to skiing areas for hiking. It’s usually quite boring with all the destroyed/missing vegetation where the ski trails are.
mitja__ 7y ago
Currently in Slovenia (high ski season) there are several low altitude resorts that still have their bike trails open instead of having a ski run on the same piste. They can't even produce artificial snow because temperatures are so high.
- silon42 7y ago
  When we were kids, we used to ski on local hills many times, never going to a resort.
saiya-jin 7y ago
They are already trying that, with various success. So summer as income is +- covered these days and can improve only by little, but almost nobody ain't gonna hike or bike in winter through former ski resort area, with +5/+10 degrees Celzius. Skiing is simply more unique/exquisite experience, more people are willing to spend more. It also often requires less effort, if one is not so fit. Plenty of folks ride down 2 times in the morning, park with beer/wine on the sun, eat, do 1-2 runs and call it a day and go to apres bar. For whole week. I am a bit skeptical about this 'reinventing' of ski resorts into something new. I look at Chamonix in France, for somebody like me the best mountain place in Europe, maybe even globally. Beautiful hiking, trail running, climbing, world class (or easy) alpinism available quickly, skiing, ski touring, paraglide, bikes and so on and on. The best season for non-winter activities is actually early autumn, September-October - better temperatures than summer, nature is stunningly beautiful, good stable weather. But almost nobody comes in autumn. Why? Because kids don't have holidays and are back to school. This is the bulk of visitors in mountains, anytime. So summer season for tourism lasts 2-2.5 months. Winter one, still is more like 4 months.

So they'll just convert the lower altitude resorts to more "summer" activities like hiking and mountain biking.

by thresh 7y ago

So they'll just convert the lower altitude resorts to more "summer" activities like hiking and mountain biking.

cardamomo 7y ago

Of course people will adapt, but there is also a cultural loss here.

seqastian 7y ago
The cultural loss of not building a space station on every hill ..
easytiger 7y ago
There is also an arrogance that the past 120 years represents how geological earth should have remained forever.
- gbrown 7y ago
  Forever? Nah, but I’d prefer if things changed at the usual pace - slow enough for species to adapt and evolve without catastrophic extinctions.
  - easytiger 7y ago
    I don't think having to find a new ski resort is catastrophic. People have only been going to ski resorts for 100 years
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >I don't think having to find a new ski resort is catastrophic. As if the worst thing is the loss of ski resorts? How about going finding a new place to live, cultivate, and the huge casualties in human life, animals, etc?
      - easytiger 7y ago
        Ironically skiresorts aren't a haven of biodiversity
    - gbrown 7y ago
      “I’m really bummed about the way it makes my arm look” said the stage 4 terminal skin cancer patient. Hint: it’s not actually about the skiing.
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    > Nah, but I’d prefer if things changed at the usual pace - slow enough for species to adapt and evolve without catastrophic extinctions. Why do you think that evolution happens like that? Extinction events are a major driver in evolution, and as far as I know, Punctuated Equilibrium Theory still has quite a bit of traction; many models (especially simulations) seem to show that this is what quite often happens.
    - gbrown 7y ago
      Well, it doesn’t always, but I’d prefer not to live during the equivalent of a self imposed asteroid impact kthxbye. Like, sure, mass extinctions happen... but this one is totally optional.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  Who the F cares how earth should look geologically. I want earth to stay habitable for humans. If earth wants to boil in greenhouses natural we should do everything possible to stop this natural process.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    I think it's simple. Some people don't have climate change problems affect them and lack human empathy. For them the problem is something they read about - not something real. If they lived in one of the directly affected areas from climate change, and suffered the consequences, they'd change the tune regarding "why expect earth to look like this geologically", etc.
    - easytiger 7y ago
      The current benchmark for climate change problems is "were things different 10-15 years ago". Yea, things have always changed. It's why weather stable regions are historically more habitable than those which aren't.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >The current benchmark for climate change problems is "were things different 10-15 years ago". Only if one has their head in the sand. Historically higher temperatures year after year, massive loss of arctic ice, etc. All of those things weren't "always changing", except if you go back to thousands to millions of years. And even then, they didn't get there with the same rate of change we have now.
        me_me_me 7y ago
        Yes exactly, all evidence point to some alarming patterns. The hottest year in recorded history, was it 7/10 were in the last 10 year. Climate changes over hundred thousands years. The rapid industrialization caused rapid heating in hundred years! This is a fact and trying to dispute it is akin to sticking you head in sand. Anyhow the whole line of its natural so we should ignore it is crazy to me. Cancer is natural and yet people treat it. It doesn't matter if global warming is, or isn't natural, or its a mix. We need to stabilize it to suit us before we go back to having total population counted in millions or so.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Because it was very different in the past 2000 years?
toper-centage 7y ago
Ostentatious, wasteful winter sports are easily the least of my worries here.
- cardamomo 7y ago
  Sure, I get that. But my bigger point isn't so much about Alpine skiing. To say simply that people will adapt to new climates belies the loss that people experience with the destruction of their home landscapes and ecosystems. In understanding this, I find the concept of solastalgia to be useful. From Wikipedia: "Solastalgia (/ˌsɒləˈstældʒə/) is a neologism that describes a form of mental or existential distress caused by environmental change. In many cases this is in reference to global climate change, but more localized events such as volcanic eruptions, drought or destructive mining techniques can cause solastalgia as well."
thresh 7y ago
I don't think there's much culture lost in moving a few ski lifts to a higher altitude place.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Out here in the East, the ski hills are often already in the highest altitude spots for hundreds of miles around.

hannob 7y ago

No, they will use snow canons and artificial snow as long as they can and will do everything they can to deny that this is happening. That is pretty much what you could observe there for many years. (Though admittedly "just" convert to summer activities sounds much easier than it is. Skiing was something that was always confined to few areas, you can hike just as well in many more places.)

notyourday 7y ago
The temps need to be below freezing for snow making to work. One can easily see the changes over last 20 years by looking at the ski mountains on the East Coast. The skiing season now is late January to mid-April.
- hannob 7y ago
  They did a ski worldcup on artificial snow in Dresden recently when it was 10 degree. The snow was delivered via trucks.
  - notyourday 7y ago
    Sure, if one is to spend millions of dollars it is possible. It is just not financially possible to do a multi-months season via snow delivery. It is even painful with snow guns.
- matsemann 7y ago
  No, one can now produce snow in ambient temperatures up to 25C. It gets a bit slushy, though, but when the snow heap is big enough it gets almost self sustained. It just costs a lot and is not environmentally friendly to use so much power to cool down the water in the snow cannons. Locally they are experimenting on heat pump technology, and to use the excess heat to something useful. Then it might be more viable. Probably cannot do it in too high temperatures, but a bit above freezing should work. Here, they have also experimented on building a gigantic heap of snow at the end of the season, and covering it so it doesn't melt too much during summer. Then it's easier to lay artificial snow on top in the fall, or the natural snow that occurs doesn't just melt when hitting the ground.

Sharlin 7y ago

Meh, they can use snow cannons. And waste a lot and lot of electricity in the process.

mtberatwork 7y ago

> activities like hiking and mountain biking While I would love to see more bike parks, I think most mountain resorts would shutter if these were the only activities bringing in revenue throughout the year.

wayoutthere 7y ago

Those activities don't make nearly as much money as skiing. There are a whole lot of places that are great for mountain biking and hiking, but very few locations with the elevation and precipitation required to support a good ski resort. Somewhat paradoxically, climate change could make some areas of the Rockies and Sierras more snowy. But depletion of snow in other areas would cause the areas with snow to become even more expensive -- and they're already pretty exclusive today.

thresh 7y ago
Even the bloomberg article states: > Already, the summer generates 60% of the tourism intake, according to Garmisch Mayor Sigrid Meierhofer. Indeed, hiking doesnt require you to spend moneys on rental equipment. It's a bit different for mountain biking - most of the time you need lift passes to enjoy the mountain. And with the explosion of electric bikes rentals in the last years, and there are lots of growth opportunities for generating revenue there as well. And it's not only about hiking/biking, of course. Of course, having more places to ski is better than having less places - my main concern is people and their jobs, and not specific resort activities per se.

ehnto 7y ago

Mountain biking is already on a huge uptick across the world, convenient timing I guess. As an avid rider, to use the terminology, I'm super stoked. We didn't previously have "bike parks" in Australia, but now we have a bunch. With a few lift access bike parks being developed on the ski resorts. However, a fairly bitter pill to swallow this year was some parks I was looking forward to riding being caught in the Australian bushfires. One was a local park, and I look forward to helping rebuild it once it's safe. It's a scary prospect for that to become the norm. Nature is dear to me. Being able to go riding in the forest is a pillar of my health, mental and physical. I have consistently been unable to ride this summer due to heatwaves and bushfire smoke. Occasionally I would make poor judgement, and leave to ride when it was clear only to be smoked out on the trails an hour later, from fires hundreds of kilometers away.

fuzzy2 7y ago

I prefer not to go to skiing areas for hiking. It’s usually quite boring with all the destroyed/missing vegetation where the ski trails are.

mitja__ 7y ago

Currently in Slovenia (high ski season) there are several low altitude resorts that still have their bike trails open instead of having a ski run on the same piste. They can't even produce artificial snow because temperatures are so high.

silon42 7y ago
When we were kids, we used to ski on local hills many times, never going to a resort.

saiya-jin 7y ago

They are already trying that, with various success. So summer as income is +- covered these days and can improve only by little, but almost nobody ain't gonna hike or bike in winter through former ski resort area, with +5/+10 degrees Celzius. Skiing is simply more unique/exquisite experience, more people are willing to spend more. It also often requires less effort, if one is not so fit. Plenty of folks ride down 2 times in the morning, park with beer/wine on the sun, eat, do 1-2 runs and call it a day and go to apres bar. For whole week. I am a bit skeptical about this 'reinventing' of ski resorts into something new. I look at Chamonix in France, for somebody like me the best mountain place in Europe, maybe even globally. Beautiful hiking, trail running, climbing, world class (or easy) alpinism available quickly, skiing, ski touring, paraglide, bikes and so on and on. The best season for non-winter activities is actually early autumn, September-October - better temperatures than summer, nature is stunningly beautiful, good stable weather. But almost nobody comes in autumn. Why? Because kids don't have holidays and are back to school. This is the bulk of visitors in mountains, anytime. So summer season for tourism lasts 2-2.5 months. Winter one, still is more like 4 months.