5 ms·

Walk all you want, meanwhile Haskell is developing ways to fly.

by hopia 7y ago

alexashka 7y ago
This is as good time as any to inform us of the exciting breakthroughs Haskell has made. When and where can I see a demonstration of flight? To avoid misunderstanding - I'm assuming you believe Haskell has flown in the past 3 decades already and that it's not that Haskell has been preparing for flight for the past 3 decades? I'd be interested to know which accomplishments you consider to be flight, why and please provide some commercial airlines that are making use of Haskell plane fleets. My favorite Haskell airplane is Idris - it is a paper airplane that I got much joy out of throwing around.
ncmncm 7y ago
If by "developing ways to fly", you mean "crawling on its knees while flapping its arms", then OK. When I see an (admittedly admirably concise) Haskell program get ten times longer just to approach the speed of the most obvious expression in C++ or even C, it leaves me uninspired. I want a language where the cleaner the program is, the faster it is. It seems like only C++ is really even trying. (Rust might step up, once it matures. Or might not.) With Dennart Scaling wholly dead, and Moore's Law petering out, there will be lots of room for better ways to use lots of cores, GPU units, and FPGAs (with plenty of macro cells) reconfigured at runtime, to make better use of what logic we can fit. C++ is only taking baby steps into that brave new world, but I don't see anyone else doing even that much. In the meantime, we have a bunch of cores to keep busy doing actually useful work, and decreasing room for actively wasteful languages. Haskell has had plenty to teach us, but it will not be the language that flies.
- lmm 7y ago
  > When I see an (admittedly admirably concise) Haskell program get ten times longer just to approach the speed of the most obvious expression in C++ or even C, it leaves me uninspired. Well, if the most obvious expression in C++ or C was a hundred times longer then that's still a win for Haskell. Particularly when the performance-critical parts are usually a tiny fraction of any given program. Frankly I don't think the industry should even start worrying about performance yet though, given how much difficulty we still have with producing correct software.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    I have not seen any example of a program that would be a hundred, or even ten, or five, times longer in C++. Not worrying about performance is a luxury that those of us who face stringent requirements are often not afforded. My experience using the WWW indicates that many, many sites demonstrate their contempt for me (and you, if you could perceive that) by ignoring it.

Walk all you want, meanwhile Haskell is developing ways to fly.

by hopia 7y ago

Walk all you want, meanwhile Haskell is developing ways to fly.

This is as good time as any to inform us of the exciting breakthroughs Haskell has made. When and where can I see a demonstration of flight? To avoid misunderstanding - I'm assuming you believe Haskell has flown in the past 3 decades already and that it's not that Haskell has been preparing for flight for the past 3 decades? I'd be interested to know which accomplishments you consider to be flight, why and please provide some commercial airlines that are making use of Haskell plane fleets. My favorite Haskell airplane is Idris - it is a paper airplane that I got much joy out of throwing around.

ncmncm 7y ago

If by "developing ways to fly", you mean "crawling on its knees while flapping its arms", then OK. When I see an (admittedly admirably concise) Haskell program get ten times longer just to approach the speed of the most obvious expression in C++ or even C, it leaves me uninspired. I want a language where the cleaner the program is, the faster it is. It seems like only C++ is really even trying. (Rust might step up, once it matures. Or might not.) With Dennart Scaling wholly dead, and Moore's Law petering out, there will be lots of room for better ways to use lots of cores, GPU units, and FPGAs (with plenty of macro cells) reconfigured at runtime, to make better use of what logic we can fit. C++ is only taking baby steps into that brave new world, but I don't see anyone else doing even that much. In the meantime, we have a bunch of cores to keep busy doing actually useful work, and decreasing room for actively wasteful languages. Haskell has had plenty to teach us, but it will not be the language that flies.

lmm 7y ago
> When I see an (admittedly admirably concise) Haskell program get ten times longer just to approach the speed of the most obvious expression in C++ or even C, it leaves me uninspired. Well, if the most obvious expression in C++ or C was a hundred times longer then that's still a win for Haskell. Particularly when the performance-critical parts are usually a tiny fraction of any given program. Frankly I don't think the industry should even start worrying about performance yet though, given how much difficulty we still have with producing correct software.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  I have not seen any example of a program that would be a hundred, or even ten, or five, times longer in C++. Not worrying about performance is a luxury that those of us who face stringent requirements are often not afforded. My experience using the WWW indicates that many, many sites demonstrate their contempt for me (and you, if you could perceive that) by ignoring it.