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Brendan Eich tweeted that they laid off about 70 people: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217517703914643456 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/12175

Brendan Eich tweeted that they laid off about 70 people: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217517703914643456 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217517703914643456 This is about 7% of all their employees. People report that a lot of QA, security, and release management folks were sacked. A lot more details in the TechCrunch article: https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/15/mozilla-lays-off-70-as-it-waits-for-subscription-products-to-generate-revenue/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/15/mozilla-lays-off-70-as-it-... > In an internal memo, Mozilla chairwoman and interim CEO Mitchell Baker specifically mentions the slow rollout of the organization’s new revenue-generating products as the reason for why it needed to take this decision edit: fixed the numbers, added some more details.

pasttense01 7y ago
From the 2018 State of Mozilla annual report: With over 1,000 full-time employees worldwide https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/
- ameshkov 7y ago
  I don't know why, but for some reason, I was thinking there were about 600 of them. Thanks for the link, I've edited my comment.
WilTimSon 7y ago
I'm surprised they're laying off security and QA, considering how focused on privacy and security their marketing campaign seems to be. In the last 6 months, I think 90% of cases where I saw Mozilla mentioned were about how it's the 'hot new browser' for the privacy-concerned. Although, perhaps, that's more to do with a good marketing team and less with a sprawling security department? Would love to see some expert opinion on what this means for the company's current trajectory.
- dman 7y ago
  Perhaps Rust is delivering better than expected results.
  - the_duke 7y ago
    Only a tiny part of Firefox is in Rust now. See https://wiki.mozilla.org/Oxidation#Rust_Components https://wiki.mozilla.org/Oxidation#Rust_Components .
    - diegocg 7y ago
      Also, Rust code can have security bugs. Memory safety bugs are not the only kind of bugs.
      - dman 7y ago
        Do Mozilla execs understand this?
      - Paul-ish 7y ago
        Rust code integrated into a C/C++ codebase can have memory safety bugs too unfortunately.
- dan_quixote 7y ago
  Unless they really were redundant, firing QA/Security/Release engineers strikes me as an act of desperation. Cutting back on those disciplines will really jack up the interest rate on your tech debt.
raister 7y ago
It was Microsoft (or other company I don't recall) that every 5 years would lay off 5% of its work force (the least capable or productive people) - this would cause those that remain to work harder next year. Then, they would open positions. Rinse and repeat.
- drcross 7y ago
  See: stack ranking
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve#Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve#Microsoft
- walshemj 7y ago
  General Electric was famous for doing this is the problem is you cant keep doing it every year. Also people just game the system and only do what will get them a good review. I know some on at a big UK company who was bucking for a promotion and they blew through 1 Mill and 15 Man years for no good reason.
  - asdasdasdasdwd 7y ago
    > Also people just game the system and only do what will get them a good review. Wouldn't doing a good job earn a good review? This reminds me of the xkcd comic about the bots starting to have constructive messages to avoid spam filters. Mission fucking accomplished.
    - zozbot234 7y ago
      > Wouldn't doing a good job earn a good review? Nope, because incentives are not aligned to that extent. The whole point of a company is that it's not a pure market where incentives are everything by definition; it's a rather more complex organization and these often rely on "soft" constraints as better sources of drive, guidance, cooperation/coordination etc. If you're relying on "hard" incentives (like firing the 'worst' 5% no matter what) you'll invariably distort behaviors in ways that are hard to even predict, and are almost never what you really want.
tracker1 7y ago
I'm not sure why they don't largely sack half their marketing budget and concentrate on community outreach from the developer side... that's how they grew in the first place. I'm also surprised they haven't tried to create commercial mail and communications products. Thunderbird used to be one of the best options out there, and they could easily spin this off into a SaaS and self-host product on the server component. As much as I hated Lotus Notes, something between Lotus Notes, Outlook and MS Teams could be something great and that the Mozilla org would be in a good position to create. I know they may have good reach with the VPN service as well... I'm unsure how they can reduce security, qa and release management people when orchestration, automation and verification are such huge needs. They get enough income from search (for now) that they could concentrate on best of breed tech, build mindshare from that, then re-introduce marketing for critical mass.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  Totally, I'd be a lot happier if they cut efforts on the branding side of things and strengthen the technical one.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
    I kinda disagree, as a huge Mozilla fan. I think their technical development is fine, if not fantastic (especially for all they're doing with WebRender/Servo). Personally I'd like to see them roll out paid privacy products. Like Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1. I currently pay for that, and if Mozilla rolled out a similar service across the Firefox ecosystem I'd gladly pay for that too.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      I'm not saying their development isn't fine, but they're laying off the people that support development... which will make it worse, when they're spending far in excess of that cost in marketing and imho not even getting the best value out of that space.
- Sammi 7y ago
  The world today is different. Can't skimp on marketing any more, as the competition is extremely heavy on marketing.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

pasttense01 7y ago

From the 2018 State of Mozilla annual report: With over 1,000 full-time employees worldwide https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/

ameshkov 7y ago
I don't know why, but for some reason, I was thinking there were about 600 of them. Thanks for the link, I've edited my comment.

WilTimSon 7y ago

I'm surprised they're laying off security and QA, considering how focused on privacy and security their marketing campaign seems to be. In the last 6 months, I think 90% of cases where I saw Mozilla mentioned were about how it's the 'hot new browser' for the privacy-concerned. Although, perhaps, that's more to do with a good marketing team and less with a sprawling security department? Would love to see some expert opinion on what this means for the company's current trajectory.

dman 7y ago
Perhaps Rust is delivering better than expected results.
- the_duke 7y ago
  Only a tiny part of Firefox is in Rust now. See https://wiki.mozilla.org/Oxidation#Rust_Components https://wiki.mozilla.org/Oxidation#Rust_Components .
  - diegocg 7y ago
    Also, Rust code can have security bugs. Memory safety bugs are not the only kind of bugs.
    - dman 7y ago
      Do Mozilla execs understand this?
    - Paul-ish 7y ago
      Rust code integrated into a C/C++ codebase can have memory safety bugs too unfortunately.
dan_quixote 7y ago
Unless they really were redundant, firing QA/Security/Release engineers strikes me as an act of desperation. Cutting back on those disciplines will really jack up the interest rate on your tech debt.

raister 7y ago

It was Microsoft (or other company I don't recall) that every 5 years would lay off 5% of its work force (the least capable or productive people) - this would cause those that remain to work harder next year. Then, they would open positions. Rinse and repeat.

drcross 7y ago
See: stack ranking
ceejayoz 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve#Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve#Microsoft
walshemj 7y ago
General Electric was famous for doing this is the problem is you cant keep doing it every year. Also people just game the system and only do what will get them a good review. I know some on at a big UK company who was bucking for a promotion and they blew through 1 Mill and 15 Man years for no good reason.
- asdasdasdasdwd 7y ago
  > Also people just game the system and only do what will get them a good review. Wouldn't doing a good job earn a good review? This reminds me of the xkcd comic about the bots starting to have constructive messages to avoid spam filters. Mission fucking accomplished.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    > Wouldn't doing a good job earn a good review? Nope, because incentives are not aligned to that extent. The whole point of a company is that it's not a pure market where incentives are everything by definition; it's a rather more complex organization and these often rely on "soft" constraints as better sources of drive, guidance, cooperation/coordination etc. If you're relying on "hard" incentives (like firing the 'worst' 5% no matter what) you'll invariably distort behaviors in ways that are hard to even predict, and are almost never what you really want.

tracker1 7y ago

I'm not sure why they don't largely sack half their marketing budget and concentrate on community outreach from the developer side... that's how they grew in the first place. I'm also surprised they haven't tried to create commercial mail and communications products. Thunderbird used to be one of the best options out there, and they could easily spin this off into a SaaS and self-host product on the server component. As much as I hated Lotus Notes, something between Lotus Notes, Outlook and MS Teams could be something great and that the Mozilla org would be in a good position to create. I know they may have good reach with the VPN service as well... I'm unsure how they can reduce security, qa and release management people when orchestration, automation and verification are such huge needs. They get enough income from search (for now) that they could concentrate on best of breed tech, build mindshare from that, then re-introduce marketing for critical mass.

agumonkey 7y ago
Totally, I'd be a lot happier if they cut efforts on the branding side of things and strengthen the technical one.
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  I kinda disagree, as a huge Mozilla fan. I think their technical development is fine, if not fantastic (especially for all they're doing with WebRender/Servo). Personally I'd like to see them roll out paid privacy products. Like Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1. I currently pay for that, and if Mozilla rolled out a similar service across the Firefox ecosystem I'd gladly pay for that too.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    I'm not saying their development isn't fine, but they're laying off the people that support development... which will make it worse, when they're spending far in excess of that cost in marketing and imho not even getting the best value out of that space.
Sammi 7y ago
The world today is different. Can't skimp on marketing any more, as the competition is extremely heavy on marketing.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]