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> Advertising isn't there to help consumers--it fundamentally is the wrong way to help consumers. Advertising helps businesses. Businesses serve consumers. Bus

> Advertising isn't there to help consumers--it fundamentally is the wrong way to help consumers. Advertising helps businesses. Businesses serve consumers. Businesses wouldn't spend a dime on advertising if it didn't need to in order to stay in business. Ergo, advertising serves consumers, albeit indirectly. > They aren't honest about it. Has any advertiser ever claimed to give you the full picture? Both sides of the argument? No, of course not. It's a sales pitch. You know it's a sales pitch. They know you know it's a sales pitch. They know that you know that they're only presenting the positive sales points. You know that they know that you know. Where's the dishonesty, exactly? It's like going on a date and saying "You know, sometimes I don't shave. Or brush my teeth. Or wear a nice outfit. I only did those to make a good impression. There's a really good chance there's someone better for you out there." Of COURSE advertisers are putting their best foot forward. Does your resume list every time you were ever late for work? When you signed up for a credit card, did you tell the bank that you were late on rent a few months ago? When you applied for post-secondary, did you tell them about that math tutor you needed to get through trig? How freakishly up-front do you need the world to be to live up to your standards?

kerkeslager 7y ago
> Advertising helps businesses. Businesses serve consumers. No, businesses serve themselves. Corporations are not your friends. Sometimes their interests align with consumers' but not always. > Has any advertiser ever claimed to give you the full picture? Both sides of the argument? No, of course not. It's a sales pitch. You know it's a sales pitch. They know you know it's a sales pitch. They know that you know that they're only presenting the positive sales points. You know that they know that you know. > Where's the dishonesty, exactly? Your claim is basically that if they don't claim to tell the truth, and everybody knows they're lying, it's no longer lying. > How freakishly up-front do you need the world to be to live up to your standards? How about we start with something simple like not pretending that advertisers jamming their ads down my throat is an altruistic act?
- nickelcitymario 7y ago
  Never claimed it was altruistic. Is altruism the only acceptable way to make a living? And my claim, to be specific, is that I disagree with your definition of lying. So does the dictionary.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    Look man, you responded within a context. Maybe you didn't claim they were being altruistic, but in context, you're posting in defense of statements made by people who are claiming altruism, or at least helpfulness, by advertisers. If you want to argue that presenting partial information with the intent to deceive isn't within the strict lying, fine, I'll concede that pedantic point. That's a rather silly hill to die on, though: do we really care about the difference between two different ways advertisers might attempt to deceive us? I think it's pretty reasonable for me to say that I don't like people who try to deceive me, regardless of whether they do it by lying, or by presenting an unbalanced, partial section of the facts.
    - nickelcitymario 7y ago
      I honestly have no idea who claims advertising is altruistic. I don't know too many businesses or industries that could make such a claim about themselves. Yeah, I'm here to make money. Do you go to work out of an altruistic desire to help your employer? Or is that incidental to your goal of earning a living? As for deception, I don't think we're going to agree, and I'm not going to try to change your mind. But for the sake of clarity: - If I say something that is untrue, I consider that a lie and a deception. It's also illegal. - If I say something is technically true but implies something that is untrue, I still consider that a deception. (For example, I recently saw an episode of Patriot Act that said clothing from H&M had labels that something about being made from recycled material, but in truth the only recycled item was the label itself. Technically, not a lie. But obviously deceptive, because they relied on our assumption that they were referring to the clothing item and not the tag that the claim was printed on.) - If I say something that is true but is used to cover up other things I don't want you to know, that's deception. So if I promote that my product uses recycled materials, and it really does, but it also pollutes the environment in other ways, that's deceptive too because I was trying to imply that my product was good for the environment when it really wasn't. - HOWEVER, if I say something that is true, don't try to get you to believe anything that isn't true by any means, but also don't tell you that my competitor has other strengths that you might want to consider, I don't consider that deceptive. I don't agree that this is "lying by omission" if the omission has nothing to do with anything else I've said in my ad. I think you're saying that you do, and we may simply be an impasse on that.

kerkeslager 7y ago

> Advertising helps businesses. Businesses serve consumers. No, businesses serve themselves. Corporations are not your friends. Sometimes their interests align with consumers' but not always. > Has any advertiser ever claimed to give you the full picture? Both sides of the argument? No, of course not. It's a sales pitch. You know it's a sales pitch. They know you know it's a sales pitch. They know that you know that they're only presenting the positive sales points. You know that they know that you know. > Where's the dishonesty, exactly? Your claim is basically that if they don't claim to tell the truth, and everybody knows they're lying, it's no longer lying. > How freakishly up-front do you need the world to be to live up to your standards? How about we start with something simple like not pretending that advertisers jamming their ads down my throat is an altruistic act?

nickelcitymario 7y ago
Never claimed it was altruistic. Is altruism the only acceptable way to make a living? And my claim, to be specific, is that I disagree with your definition of lying. So does the dictionary.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  Look man, you responded within a context. Maybe you didn't claim they were being altruistic, but in context, you're posting in defense of statements made by people who are claiming altruism, or at least helpfulness, by advertisers. If you want to argue that presenting partial information with the intent to deceive isn't within the strict lying, fine, I'll concede that pedantic point. That's a rather silly hill to die on, though: do we really care about the difference between two different ways advertisers might attempt to deceive us? I think it's pretty reasonable for me to say that I don't like people who try to deceive me, regardless of whether they do it by lying, or by presenting an unbalanced, partial section of the facts.
  - nickelcitymario 7y ago
    I honestly have no idea who claims advertising is altruistic. I don't know too many businesses or industries that could make such a claim about themselves. Yeah, I'm here to make money. Do you go to work out of an altruistic desire to help your employer? Or is that incidental to your goal of earning a living? As for deception, I don't think we're going to agree, and I'm not going to try to change your mind. But for the sake of clarity: - If I say something that is untrue, I consider that a lie and a deception. It's also illegal. - If I say something is technically true but implies something that is untrue, I still consider that a deception. (For example, I recently saw an episode of Patriot Act that said clothing from H&M had labels that something about being made from recycled material, but in truth the only recycled item was the label itself. Technically, not a lie. But obviously deceptive, because they relied on our assumption that they were referring to the clothing item and not the tag that the claim was printed on.) - If I say something that is true but is used to cover up other things I don't want you to know, that's deception. So if I promote that my product uses recycled materials, and it really does, but it also pollutes the environment in other ways, that's deceptive too because I was trying to imply that my product was good for the environment when it really wasn't. - HOWEVER, if I say something that is true, don't try to get you to believe anything that isn't true by any means, but also don't tell you that my competitor has other strengths that you might want to consider, I don't consider that deceptive. I don't agree that this is "lying by omission" if the omission has nothing to do with anything else I've said in my ad. I think you're saying that you do, and we may simply be an impasse on that.