5 ms·

I have 2 friends in their 40s who are primary care physicians at Kaiser (one in Bay Area, one in Sacramento). Both have dropped down to 60% time (3 days per we

I have 2 friends in their 40s who are primary care physicians at Kaiser (one in Bay Area, one in Sacramento). Both have dropped down to 60% time (3 days per week), explaining that 60% time is actually 40 hours. In the last few years Kaiser has added both EHR work and e-medicine work without reducing the number of appointment slots. So, it's about 7 hours per day of appointments and then catching up on all of the deferred paperwork and emails.

overlyLogical 7y ago
But they still make 10x more than the average American.
- wobbly_bush 7y ago
  Not the person you replied to, but how is that relevant to the discussion?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- conanbatt 7y ago
  Not that much. They have half a million dollar student loans; they pay thousands of dollars a month in malpractice. And doctoes are very overworked. Its not that great of a profession.
  - vkou 7y ago
    Then where is all this money going? Why does my health insurance cost $10,000/person of coverage, on top of deductibles and co-pays?
    - fragmede 7y ago
      Administration, primarily. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care-costs-so-much-more-in-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care...
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf 33% to hospitals 20% to physicians and clinical services 9% to retail prescription drugs 5% for other health, residential and personal care services 5% for nursing care facilities and continuing care retirement communities 4% for dental services I can't find any clear answer to what proportion doctors earn themselves: https://www.medicalbag.com/home/finance/health-care-costs-in-the-united-states-are-physician-salaries-really-the-problem/ https://www.medicalbag.com/home/finance/health-care-costs-in...
      - sdinsn 7y ago
        In addition, you pay for profit for the insurance companies
    - conanbatt 7y ago
      Mostly admin. You could make healthcare a lot cheaper with cheaper doctors though, but its not that great a racket
- hardtke 7y ago
  Not true. A primary care physician at Kaiser makes a bit over $200K if they work full time AFAIK. Average American makes about $50K. Considering the 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency they are not overpaid. Specialists are the people making $500K+
  - shadow-banned 7y ago
    $50K is household income. Average income is more like $32K.
    - MagnumOpus 7y ago
      Median full-time individual income is $48,000. (Weekly earnings of $923 from [1] times 52.). The mean is even higher. [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm
      - James_Henry 7y ago
        Median personal income in 2018 was estimated to be $33.7k (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N). And the BLS gives mean wages for family and general practitioner at $211,780 (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.h...). Also, while I don't know about the competitiveness of jobs in certain locations, rural states can have some of the higher mean wages for fam and gen practioners (https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291062.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291062.htm).
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- dickjocke 7y ago
  Primary care doc is making 10x 55k? Doubt it's even 5x
novok 7y ago
Kaiser a shit place to work at for any doctor. Classic standard american BigCorp stereotypes everywhere.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Kaiser is a shit place to work....until you compare them to the alternatives. I know a number of doctors who love working for Kaiser after having worked in private practice or at other hospital chains.
  - novok 7y ago
    I've found a opposite experience. They seemed to like sutter the best, a bunch of others not bad and kaiser was so-so. It might be a case-by-case issue depending on the specialty.

overlyLogical 7y ago

But they still make 10x more than the average American.

wobbly_bush 7y ago
Not the person you replied to, but how is that relevant to the discussion?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
conanbatt 7y ago
Not that much. They have half a million dollar student loans; they pay thousands of dollars a month in malpractice. And doctoes are very overworked. Its not that great of a profession.
- vkou 7y ago
  Then where is all this money going? Why does my health insurance cost $10,000/person of coverage, on top of deductibles and co-pays?
  - fragmede 7y ago
    Administration, primarily. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care-costs-so-much-more-in-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care...
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf 33% to hospitals 20% to physicians and clinical services 9% to retail prescription drugs 5% for other health, residential and personal care services 5% for nursing care facilities and continuing care retirement communities 4% for dental services I can't find any clear answer to what proportion doctors earn themselves: https://www.medicalbag.com/home/finance/health-care-costs-in-the-united-states-are-physician-salaries-really-the-problem/ https://www.medicalbag.com/home/finance/health-care-costs-in...
    - sdinsn 7y ago
      In addition, you pay for profit for the insurance companies
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    Mostly admin. You could make healthcare a lot cheaper with cheaper doctors though, but its not that great a racket
hardtke 7y ago
Not true. A primary care physician at Kaiser makes a bit over $200K if they work full time AFAIK. Average American makes about $50K. Considering the 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency they are not overpaid. Specialists are the people making $500K+
- shadow-banned 7y ago
  $50K is household income. Average income is more like $32K.
  - MagnumOpus 7y ago
    Median full-time individual income is $48,000. (Weekly earnings of $923 from [1] times 52.). The mean is even higher. [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm
    - James_Henry 7y ago
      Median personal income in 2018 was estimated to be $33.7k (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N). And the BLS gives mean wages for family and general practitioner at $211,780 (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.h...). Also, while I don't know about the competitiveness of jobs in certain locations, rural states can have some of the higher mean wages for fam and gen practioners (https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291062.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291062.htm).
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
dickjocke 7y ago
Primary care doc is making 10x 55k? Doubt it's even 5x

novok 7y ago

Kaiser a shit place to work at for any doctor. Classic standard american BigCorp stereotypes everywhere.

gamblor956 7y ago
Kaiser is a shit place to work....until you compare them to the alternatives. I know a number of doctors who love working for Kaiser after having worked in private practice or at other hospital chains.
- novok 7y ago
  I've found a opposite experience. They seemed to like sutter the best, a bunch of others not bad and kaiser was so-so. It might be a case-by-case issue depending on the specialty.