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> But you've given a "solution" (that involves separating me from my money) to a problem that you created in the first place. When did I create a problem? Yes,

> But you've given a "solution" (that involves separating me from my money) to a problem that you created in the first place. When did I create a problem? Yes, some advertising invents nonexistent problems and I thought I was clear that this shit is evil. That's a different thing from saying "that headache you have sucks, doesn't it? here's some tylenol" > No, you wouldn't, because doing so will make people unhappy, not happy. Way to miss the point, dude.

JohnFen 7y ago
> That's a different thing from saying "that headache you have sucks, doesn't it? here's some tylenol" It is indeed different. I was responding to this: > 1. If I'm successful in getting you to want the product, I've created (or emphasized an existing) dissatisfaction. That's not good. But: > 2. I've given you the knowledge of a solution to your problem. Where you appeared to be justifying creating dissatisfaction on the basis that you are providing a solution to that dissatisfaction. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point here. > Way to miss the point, dude. I suppose that I did -- and I still do, because I don't see how my reply was unresponsive.
- nickelcitymario 7y ago
  > Where you appeared to be justifying creating dissatisfaction on the basis that you are providing a solution to that dissatisfaction. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point here. Touché. I did say that. Balderdash. My point (poorly stated) was that while I think it's cruel to create a problem where it doesn't exist, it's not cruel to promote the solution to a real problem that already exists. However, promoting the solution involves reminding you of the problem, which creates or emphasizes a dissatisfaction you may have been ignoring. > I suppose that I did -- and I still do, because I don't see how my reply was unresponsive. My point in using heroin as an example was to say there are plenty of ways to create happiness that aren't necessarily beneficial in the long run. Perhaps some better examples would be: - Sitting on the beach all day - Not exercising - Spending every dollar I have today and ignoring my future needs All of these would lead to me being happy for a while. But eventually they're detrimental. Yes?
asdff 7y ago
Imagine being overweight and being told by an absolute stranger, "gee, you look bad. come join my gym, you'd look like this ripped guy." Prick, right? People have dissatisfactions, but only advertisements have the audacity to point them out as a complete stranger. Even if a loved one did that, you might recoil. when people are unhappy about something, they will share it with someone they trust if they want to talk about it. Advertisements get a free pass to nose into your life and be your mother? Please.
- nickelcitymario 7y ago
  I actually agree. Which is why my first comment on this thread said this: > HOWEVER (I can feel your hatred), there's a difference between motivating people to aspire to better things vs simply making them feel shitty about themselves so they'll buy your crap. There are lots of different ways to motivate people. Lying is one of them. Making them feel bad about themselves works too. I don't support either of those approaches. So to use your example about the gym, I strongly dislike most fitness/health advertising for the very reasons you state. If I were to run ads for that industry, I'd focus on the effort of regular everyday people. I wouldn't show impossibly perfect (and mostly photoshopped) people. I'd show people from across the whole spectrum pushing themselves, waking up early to hit the gym. I'd focus on health, not "beauty". On working out so you can have more energy, fewer health complications, greater strength, etc. I wouldn't run ads that tell you "you should work out because it's the only way you could ever look like this model over here". But that's just me. I don't know if my approach would work, because I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. (Not a lot of fitness brands looking for an ad agency in Northern Ontario.)

JohnFen 7y ago

> That's a different thing from saying "that headache you have sucks, doesn't it? here's some tylenol" It is indeed different. I was responding to this: > 1. If I'm successful in getting you to want the product, I've created (or emphasized an existing) dissatisfaction. That's not good. But: > 2. I've given you the knowledge of a solution to your problem. Where you appeared to be justifying creating dissatisfaction on the basis that you are providing a solution to that dissatisfaction. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point here. > Way to miss the point, dude. I suppose that I did -- and I still do, because I don't see how my reply was unresponsive.

nickelcitymario 7y ago
> Where you appeared to be justifying creating dissatisfaction on the basis that you are providing a solution to that dissatisfaction. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point here. Touché. I did say that. Balderdash. My point (poorly stated) was that while I think it's cruel to create a problem where it doesn't exist, it's not cruel to promote the solution to a real problem that already exists. However, promoting the solution involves reminding you of the problem, which creates or emphasizes a dissatisfaction you may have been ignoring. > I suppose that I did -- and I still do, because I don't see how my reply was unresponsive. My point in using heroin as an example was to say there are plenty of ways to create happiness that aren't necessarily beneficial in the long run. Perhaps some better examples would be: - Sitting on the beach all day - Not exercising - Spending every dollar I have today and ignoring my future needs All of these would lead to me being happy for a while. But eventually they're detrimental. Yes?

asdff 7y ago

Imagine being overweight and being told by an absolute stranger, "gee, you look bad. come join my gym, you'd look like this ripped guy." Prick, right? People have dissatisfactions, but only advertisements have the audacity to point them out as a complete stranger. Even if a loved one did that, you might recoil. when people are unhappy about something, they will share it with someone they trust if they want to talk about it. Advertisements get a free pass to nose into your life and be your mother? Please.

nickelcitymario 7y ago
I actually agree. Which is why my first comment on this thread said this: > HOWEVER (I can feel your hatred), there's a difference between motivating people to aspire to better things vs simply making them feel shitty about themselves so they'll buy your crap. There are lots of different ways to motivate people. Lying is one of them. Making them feel bad about themselves works too. I don't support either of those approaches. So to use your example about the gym, I strongly dislike most fitness/health advertising for the very reasons you state. If I were to run ads for that industry, I'd focus on the effort of regular everyday people. I wouldn't show impossibly perfect (and mostly photoshopped) people. I'd show people from across the whole spectrum pushing themselves, waking up early to hit the gym. I'd focus on health, not "beauty". On working out so you can have more energy, fewer health complications, greater strength, etc. I wouldn't run ads that tell you "you should work out because it's the only way you could ever look like this model over here". But that's just me. I don't know if my approach would work, because I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. (Not a lot of fitness brands looking for an ad agency in Northern Ontario.)