7 ms·

Driving a newish car is a pretty good idea though, they are generally way safer.

by Franciscouzo 7y ago

mixmastamyk 7y ago
If you are talking about one from the 80s probably yes, 2009 not so much.
- theptip 7y ago
  I don't think this is correct. A lot of the new driver assistance technologies are having a significant effect on safety: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/22/new-report-shows-how-many-accidents-injuries-collision-avoidance-systems-prevent.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/22/new-report-shows-how-many-ac... These features are new in the last 10 years, some are new in the last couple years, and they are continually improving.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    The effect appears to be negative if anything. That article is starkly (and suspiciously) alone in its conclusions, if you look at what's been happening statistically over the last few years. The systems will get better, but for the time being, they mostly serve to let drivers think they can get away with paying even less attention to the road than usual.
    - uoaei 7y ago
      This is a "get off my lawn" sort of comment, but: Easy cars are making worse drivers. People rarely check their blind spot now because the little light on their sideview mirror lights up instead. People are less concerned about driving unsafely because their cars are thicker, heavier, and bigger than the other participants on the road. This has been especially troubling to watch develop from the bike lane, as visibility shrinks and auto manufacturers don't seem to test extensively whether their onboard radar can detect cyclists and pedestrians. It's created a very strange experience of driving where the person inside does not share the same reality as the outside except when their car is within 2 feet of another car. Cars are cages, not only physically, but mentally too.
      - CamperBob2 7y ago
        People rarely check their blind spot no True, and another facet of the same problem is that blind spots are getting bigger by the model year, as automakers take the cheap way out and raise their belt lines to meet side-impact regulations. We will all be driving around in tanks before long. I guess that's supposed to be a good thing.
        uoaei 7y ago
        > We will all be driving around in tanks before long. Car doors are close to a foot thick now. The cars are getting huge which means more space is occupied by the streets (increased lane width and space in intersections for larger turning radius), the parking lots (larger parking spots and wider spaces to drive between them), etc. The mental isolation between driver and environment is growing and does not seem to be decelerating. I'm convinced that maybe 10% of all drivers (in my area, suburban SV) pay any attention to what's happening behind them. They don't have to care, so they don't! Cars are devouring mobility.
      - interestica 7y ago
        Aren't we seeing our first requests from manufacturers to remove sideview mirrors entirely? To be replaced by cameras and video screens.
        gpm 7y ago
        We've been seeing those requests for awhile now, e.g. this from 2016: https://www.oemoffhighway.com/electronics/sensors/proximity-detection-safety-systems/article/12246040/camera-systems-replace-side-view-mirrors https://www.oemoffhighway.com/electronics/sensors/proximity-...
        interestica 7y ago
        Are these in use now?
        CamperBob2 7y ago
  - Retric 7y ago
    It’s not showing up in fatality rates. 2009 had 1.15 deaths per 100 million miles, 2018 had 1.13 but that difference is just noise. With 2014 down at 1.08 and 2016 up at 1.19. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... Of course plenty of older cars are still on the road, but collision avoidance systems have been on the roads for years and don’t seem to be having significant impact. Granted, driver behaviors may be getting worse, but going back further and you see significant declines which just stall out around 2009.
    - theptip 7y ago
      > It’s not showing up in fatality rates. Fair, it does seem like the overall statistics don't show this. I'm having trouble squaring this with the data showing that these technologies are preventing accidents. > Granted, driver behaviors may be getting worse I wonder whether the top quartile is getting significantly better (thus resulting in the great "crashes avoided" numbers that these technologies claim) while everyone else is getting more distracted with their cell phones, causing an overall increase in the average number of crashes. This goes into a bit more detail, suggesting that pedestrian fatalities due to more SUVs could also be driving the increase in fatalities: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17933536/traffic-death-crash-statistics-nhtsa-us-2017 https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17933536/traffic-death-cr... So it could also be a "safer for me, more dangerous for you" situation too with these new vehicles.
      - Retric 7y ago
        It might also be that fatal accidents are much harder for automated driving systems to prevent. They could drastically reduce parking lot fender benders or low speed rear end collisions, but those are ultra low risk. Someone doing 140+MPH is going to receive minimal benifits from 1/8th of a second of early breaking before hitting a tree. Similarly, losing control on ice and driving off a cliff, or getting hit with a jackknifed semi truck etc.
- dgacmu 7y ago
  2012 -- electronic stability control made a pretty big difference. Past that, the jury is out.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Mandatory that year but common before that.

Driving a newish car is a pretty good idea though, they are generally way safer.

mixmastamyk 7y ago

If you are talking about one from the 80s probably yes, 2009 not so much.

theptip 7y ago
I don't think this is correct. A lot of the new driver assistance technologies are having a significant effect on safety: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/22/new-report-shows-how-many-accidents-injuries-collision-avoidance-systems-prevent.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/22/new-report-shows-how-many-ac... These features are new in the last 10 years, some are new in the last couple years, and they are continually improving.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  The effect appears to be negative if anything. That article is starkly (and suspiciously) alone in its conclusions, if you look at what's been happening statistically over the last few years. The systems will get better, but for the time being, they mostly serve to let drivers think they can get away with paying even less attention to the road than usual.
  - uoaei 7y ago
    This is a "get off my lawn" sort of comment, but: Easy cars are making worse drivers. People rarely check their blind spot now because the little light on their sideview mirror lights up instead. People are less concerned about driving unsafely because their cars are thicker, heavier, and bigger than the other participants on the road. This has been especially troubling to watch develop from the bike lane, as visibility shrinks and auto manufacturers don't seem to test extensively whether their onboard radar can detect cyclists and pedestrians. It's created a very strange experience of driving where the person inside does not share the same reality as the outside except when their car is within 2 feet of another car. Cars are cages, not only physically, but mentally too.
    - CamperBob2 7y ago
      People rarely check their blind spot no True, and another facet of the same problem is that blind spots are getting bigger by the model year, as automakers take the cheap way out and raise their belt lines to meet side-impact regulations. We will all be driving around in tanks before long. I guess that's supposed to be a good thing.
      - uoaei 7y ago
        > We will all be driving around in tanks before long. Car doors are close to a foot thick now. The cars are getting huge which means more space is occupied by the streets (increased lane width and space in intersections for larger turning radius), the parking lots (larger parking spots and wider spaces to drive between them), etc. The mental isolation between driver and environment is growing and does not seem to be decelerating. I'm convinced that maybe 10% of all drivers (in my area, suburban SV) pay any attention to what's happening behind them. They don't have to care, so they don't! Cars are devouring mobility.
    - interestica 7y ago
      Aren't we seeing our first requests from manufacturers to remove sideview mirrors entirely? To be replaced by cameras and video screens.
      - gpm 7y ago
        We've been seeing those requests for awhile now, e.g. this from 2016: https://www.oemoffhighway.com/electronics/sensors/proximity-detection-safety-systems/article/12246040/camera-systems-replace-side-view-mirrors https://www.oemoffhighway.com/electronics/sensors/proximity-...
        interestica 7y ago
        Are these in use now?
      - CamperBob2 7y ago
- Retric 7y ago
  It’s not showing up in fatality rates. 2009 had 1.15 deaths per 100 million miles, 2018 had 1.13 but that difference is just noise. With 2014 down at 1.08 and 2016 up at 1.19. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... Of course plenty of older cars are still on the road, but collision avoidance systems have been on the roads for years and don’t seem to be having significant impact. Granted, driver behaviors may be getting worse, but going back further and you see significant declines which just stall out around 2009.
  - theptip 7y ago
    > It’s not showing up in fatality rates. Fair, it does seem like the overall statistics don't show this. I'm having trouble squaring this with the data showing that these technologies are preventing accidents. > Granted, driver behaviors may be getting worse I wonder whether the top quartile is getting significantly better (thus resulting in the great "crashes avoided" numbers that these technologies claim) while everyone else is getting more distracted with their cell phones, causing an overall increase in the average number of crashes. This goes into a bit more detail, suggesting that pedestrian fatalities due to more SUVs could also be driving the increase in fatalities: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17933536/traffic-death-crash-statistics-nhtsa-us-2017 https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17933536/traffic-death-cr... So it could also be a "safer for me, more dangerous for you" situation too with these new vehicles.
    - Retric 7y ago
      It might also be that fatal accidents are much harder for automated driving systems to prevent. They could drastically reduce parking lot fender benders or low speed rear end collisions, but those are ultra low risk. Someone doing 140+MPH is going to receive minimal benifits from 1/8th of a second of early breaking before hitting a tree. Similarly, losing control on ice and driving off a cliff, or getting hit with a jackknifed semi truck etc.
dgacmu 7y ago
2012 -- electronic stability control made a pretty big difference. Past that, the jury is out.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Mandatory that year but common before that.