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When Firefox 1.0 came out, it was one of the lightest browsers available on the market. What happened until version 4.0? Even the latest Firefox beta is one of

When Firefox 1.0 came out, it was one of the lightest browsers available on the market. What happened until version 4.0? Even the latest Firefox beta is one of the slowest browser available. I’m not talking about the JavaScript engine, I’m talking about the user experience of your product.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
glenjamin 16y ago
I'd say that in the 10 or so years since firefox 1.0, the average computing power and requirements of the firefox user have shifted enough that the goalposts have moved. Firefox 1.0's USP at a time when browsers were bloated was its lack of bloat. IMO thats less of an issue now.
- petsos 16y ago
  I'm sorry but this mentality is everything that is wrong with software development. How is bloat not an issue now? We expect that hardware is getting better and better, but it is ok for software to become worse and worse just because it can sort of get away with it? In this case Firefox has even managed to outperform Moore's law. It managed to become slower in a faster rate than computers get faster.
  - glenjamin 16y ago
    "Worse" in this case is subjective. Perhaps firefox today is objectively not as good for me (as a developer) as it was at 1.0. My argument is that I'm not necessarily the main target demographic any more, Firefox 3.6 is fast enough and has the features that Joe average wants.
- kungpaobeef2 16y ago
  Actually, 6 years and about 3 months.
daniel02216 16y ago
A pessimistic answer would be that all the people who were working on Mozilla who liked to add bloat like email and IRC and Palm syncing to a web browser jumped over to Firefox. Or that the guys who wrote Firefox 1.0 have moved on. Or that that's what happens when you write your UI in XML, render it with a browser engine, and load half a million extensions and history databases from disk on startup. A different answer might be that it does so much more that a slowdown is part and parcel of doing all that's necessary in a modern browser.
mike-cardwell 16y ago
Exactly. I'm holding out for Firefox 4, and if it's not substantially faster than Firefox 3, I'll be moving to Chrome and I wont be moving back. Firefox 4 is their last chance to get their shit sorted.
pcwalton 16y ago
What in particular about the UX of the latest beta do you find slow? We should fix it.
- lovamova 16y ago
  Here are couple of things: 1. Sync slows down the interface of the application a lot. There should be an option to completely disable Sync. Or Sync should have been an add-on installed by default. If I want to sync only the bookmarks, do just that, nothing else. Sync should also be activated only when I save a new bookmark, not every now and then. 2. SQLite slows down the application and complicates things with those default smart folders. You can't even create a smart folder for bookmarks. Mozilla should have write a faster database for bookmarks and history — they are just soem lines of text after all. 3. Live Bookmarks are useless now since the RSS icon was removed. It was useless before. I think by removing the code for Live Bookmarks and treating bookmarks and history in the same way will make things work faster. 4. Tab Groups also slows down the interface. It is useless since you can manage multiple tab groups by opening new windows. 5. Moving the status bar in the address bar was a bad idea. It complicates the user experience. Status bar should be shown only when something new happens — a download stars, a new page is loading, etc. I don't know what happens under the hood, but Firefox is heading in the wrong direction.
  - pcwalton 16y ago
    (1) Sync is now on asynchronous APIs as of the latest beta (or maybe the next one). You can disable Sync in the Preferences window, and you can choose to only sync bookmarks if you'd like. (2) Places (the bookmarks database) is now on asynchronous APIs, which means that, unless you're using esoteric features of bookmarks, they never block the UI thread. SQLite is also now in WAL mode. Smart folders are still slow as I understand it, and there's a plan to revamp and/or remove them. (3) Bookmarks and history have been treated the same way since Firefox 3 (Places). There is talk of revamping and/or removing Live Bookmarks as well. (4) Tab Groups is now secondary UI (the icon is gone by default). It is never loaded until you open it. (5) The status bar is no longer in the address bar.
pnathan 16y ago
Due to Firefox slowness, I have fully transitioned to Chrome on all my computers. I run adblock plus and often flashblock. Phoenix was fast. I liked that. I should go try to compile it and run it on W7 and see what it does on modern websites. Speed and ability to render correctly are my killer features for browsers.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

glenjamin 16y ago

I'd say that in the 10 or so years since firefox 1.0, the average computing power and requirements of the firefox user have shifted enough that the goalposts have moved. Firefox 1.0's USP at a time when browsers were bloated was its lack of bloat. IMO thats less of an issue now.

petsos 16y ago
I'm sorry but this mentality is everything that is wrong with software development. How is bloat not an issue now? We expect that hardware is getting better and better, but it is ok for software to become worse and worse just because it can sort of get away with it? In this case Firefox has even managed to outperform Moore's law. It managed to become slower in a faster rate than computers get faster.
- glenjamin 16y ago
  "Worse" in this case is subjective. Perhaps firefox today is objectively not as good for me (as a developer) as it was at 1.0. My argument is that I'm not necessarily the main target demographic any more, Firefox 3.6 is fast enough and has the features that Joe average wants.
kungpaobeef2 16y ago
Actually, 6 years and about 3 months.

daniel02216 16y ago

A pessimistic answer would be that all the people who were working on Mozilla who liked to add bloat like email and IRC and Palm syncing to a web browser jumped over to Firefox. Or that the guys who wrote Firefox 1.0 have moved on. Or that that's what happens when you write your UI in XML, render it with a browser engine, and load half a million extensions and history databases from disk on startup. A different answer might be that it does so much more that a slowdown is part and parcel of doing all that's necessary in a modern browser.

mike-cardwell 16y ago

Exactly. I'm holding out for Firefox 4, and if it's not substantially faster than Firefox 3, I'll be moving to Chrome and I wont be moving back. Firefox 4 is their last chance to get their shit sorted.

pcwalton 16y ago

What in particular about the UX of the latest beta do you find slow? We should fix it.

lovamova 16y ago
Here are couple of things: 1. Sync slows down the interface of the application a lot. There should be an option to completely disable Sync. Or Sync should have been an add-on installed by default. If I want to sync only the bookmarks, do just that, nothing else. Sync should also be activated only when I save a new bookmark, not every now and then. 2. SQLite slows down the application and complicates things with those default smart folders. You can't even create a smart folder for bookmarks. Mozilla should have write a faster database for bookmarks and history — they are just soem lines of text after all. 3. Live Bookmarks are useless now since the RSS icon was removed. It was useless before. I think by removing the code for Live Bookmarks and treating bookmarks and history in the same way will make things work faster. 4. Tab Groups also slows down the interface. It is useless since you can manage multiple tab groups by opening new windows. 5. Moving the status bar in the address bar was a bad idea. It complicates the user experience. Status bar should be shown only when something new happens — a download stars, a new page is loading, etc. I don't know what happens under the hood, but Firefox is heading in the wrong direction.
- pcwalton 16y ago
  (1) Sync is now on asynchronous APIs as of the latest beta (or maybe the next one). You can disable Sync in the Preferences window, and you can choose to only sync bookmarks if you'd like. (2) Places (the bookmarks database) is now on asynchronous APIs, which means that, unless you're using esoteric features of bookmarks, they never block the UI thread. SQLite is also now in WAL mode. Smart folders are still slow as I understand it, and there's a plan to revamp and/or remove them. (3) Bookmarks and history have been treated the same way since Firefox 3 (Places). There is talk of revamping and/or removing Live Bookmarks as well. (4) Tab Groups is now secondary UI (the icon is gone by default). It is never loaded until you open it. (5) The status bar is no longer in the address bar.

pnathan 16y ago

Due to Firefox slowness, I have fully transitioned to Chrome on all my computers. I run adblock plus and often flashblock. Phoenix was fast. I liked that. I should go try to compile it and run it on W7 and see what it does on modern websites. Speed and ability to render correctly are my killer features for browsers.