7 ms·

We should strive to take away the option of knowledge from the poor, so they can be happy with their place in society.

by cm2012 7y ago

apatters 7y ago
We should strive to lie less to the poor about what they need to possess.
- kittiepryde 7y ago
  Like access to health care?
- tartoran 7y ago
  We should strive to lie less period! Not only the poor are lied to, the middle class is the main target IMHO
- manigandham 7y ago
  False advertising is already illegal. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with creating desire for something. It's ultimately up to the people to make their own choices.
  - frenchyatwork 7y ago
    Blatantly false advertising is illegal. There's a lot of room between "blatantly false" and "valuable and informative". That's why we have upvote and downvote mechanisms. Also, I understand not everyone believes this, but I think there is something morally wrong with the form and scale of manipulation that modern advertisement brings.
teekert 7y ago
Maybe we can just create a lower underclass that we make too stupid to care for growth by subjecting them to alcohol during pregnancy and provide them with drugs that will simply allow them to be content by being.
- slumdev 7y ago
  FAS is correlated with low socioeconomic status of the parent(s). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860552/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860552/ Likewise, poor educational outcomes not caused by FAS are also correlated with low socioeconomic status of the parent(s). And we already have the "content by being" drugs -- tobacco, alcohol, and television. If that doesn't look like a permanent underclass that we're snowing with Soma, I don't know what would.
- aketchum 7y ago
  Is this a Brave New World reference?
  - teekert 7y ago
    Yes :)
- AdmiralGinge 7y ago
  In all seriousness, Brave New World is an excellent book. It's quite startling how much Huxley got right (and also what he got wrong, instead of soma we actually got the complete opposite with an international version of American prohibition). The general premise that it's easier to keep the population ignorant by barraging us with endless trivial rubbish than than 1984-style authoritarian "Ministries of Truth" is spot on I think. Huxley is definitely on my top ten list of favourite authors.
  - teekert 7y ago
    True but I always see TV, social networks, 9gag and tiktok like apps as soma. I take a gramme and only am.
greeneggs 7y ago
Yes, inequality only makes people unhappy if it is visible. Ergo, instead of asking developers to incorporate affordable housing, we should be encouraging more gated compounds. I could put a /s here, but it could well be literally true.
kerkeslager 7y ago
Advertising doesn't contain knowledge. It's like a stopped clock: even when it's correct, you don't know it's correct, because most of the time it's not correct. And more critically, even when it is correct, it's not the complete story. I've never seen an ad that admits that their competitor's product is cheaper, or better. In fact, most ads don't even want you to know their competitor exists. So let's not pretend advertising is about "giving knowledge to the poor". That's just an odious lie. If it were about giving knowledge, you'd by trying to tell the whole story.
- manigandham 7y ago
  The knowledge is that product exists, followed by its purpose, features and benefits to you. Why would they tell you about a competitor?
  - backupcavalry 7y ago
    Can't help but notice that the product's flaws isn't in that list. I think the point is that advertising is providing you an ideal imagery to drive you to buy their product, truth and knowledge be damned.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Flaws are subjective depending on how a product doesn't match your needs. What would a company consider a flaw? The product is released as designed, with no obvious issues. Again, the knowledge is them telling you about the product. They don't make you do anything other than provide information. You're entirely in control of your decisions.
      - kerkeslager 7y ago
        > Flaws are subjective depending on how a product doesn't match your needs. What would a company consider a flaw? That's one part of the issue. A company's product might be the best product for some people's needs, but there might be another product that fits the needs of some market segment better. But the company doesn't care if their product is the best for that segment: a sale is a sale. They'll advertise the strong points of the product, ignoring the properties of the product which might make it unsuitable for some consumers. This doesn't benefit consumers. This might all seem obvious, but there are people on this thread who think advertising benefits consumers. > What would a company consider a flaw? The product is released as designed, with no obvious issues. This is really, really not true, and I am not entirely sure you are making a good faith argument here. I work hard at my job, but I've never released a product that didn't have bugs and tradeoffs. > Again, the knowledge is them telling you about the product. They don't make you do anything other than provide information. You're entirely in control of your decisions. Your decisions are only as good as the information you have, and advertising deliberately gives you wrong or incomplete information.

We should strive to take away the option of knowledge from the poor, so they can be happy with their place in society.

by cm2012 7y ago

We should strive to take away the option of knowledge from the poor, so they can be happy with their place in society.

apatters 7y ago

We should strive to lie less to the poor about what they need to possess.

kittiepryde 7y ago
Like access to health care?
tartoran 7y ago
We should strive to lie less period! Not only the poor are lied to, the middle class is the main target IMHO
manigandham 7y ago
False advertising is already illegal. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with creating desire for something. It's ultimately up to the people to make their own choices.
- frenchyatwork 7y ago
  Blatantly false advertising is illegal. There's a lot of room between "blatantly false" and "valuable and informative". That's why we have upvote and downvote mechanisms. Also, I understand not everyone believes this, but I think there is something morally wrong with the form and scale of manipulation that modern advertisement brings.

teekert 7y ago

Maybe we can just create a lower underclass that we make too stupid to care for growth by subjecting them to alcohol during pregnancy and provide them with drugs that will simply allow them to be content by being.

slumdev 7y ago
FAS is correlated with low socioeconomic status of the parent(s). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860552/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860552/ Likewise, poor educational outcomes not caused by FAS are also correlated with low socioeconomic status of the parent(s). And we already have the "content by being" drugs -- tobacco, alcohol, and television. If that doesn't look like a permanent underclass that we're snowing with Soma, I don't know what would.
aketchum 7y ago
Is this a Brave New World reference?
- teekert 7y ago
  Yes :)
AdmiralGinge 7y ago
In all seriousness, Brave New World is an excellent book. It's quite startling how much Huxley got right (and also what he got wrong, instead of soma we actually got the complete opposite with an international version of American prohibition). The general premise that it's easier to keep the population ignorant by barraging us with endless trivial rubbish than than 1984-style authoritarian "Ministries of Truth" is spot on I think. Huxley is definitely on my top ten list of favourite authors.
- teekert 7y ago
  True but I always see TV, social networks, 9gag and tiktok like apps as soma. I take a gramme and only am.

greeneggs 7y ago

Yes, inequality only makes people unhappy if it is visible. Ergo, instead of asking developers to incorporate affordable housing, we should be encouraging more gated compounds. I could put a /s here, but it could well be literally true.

kerkeslager 7y ago

Advertising doesn't contain knowledge. It's like a stopped clock: even when it's correct, you don't know it's correct, because most of the time it's not correct. And more critically, even when it is correct, it's not the complete story. I've never seen an ad that admits that their competitor's product is cheaper, or better. In fact, most ads don't even want you to know their competitor exists. So let's not pretend advertising is about "giving knowledge to the poor". That's just an odious lie. If it were about giving knowledge, you'd by trying to tell the whole story.

manigandham 7y ago
The knowledge is that product exists, followed by its purpose, features and benefits to you. Why would they tell you about a competitor?
- backupcavalry 7y ago
  Can't help but notice that the product's flaws isn't in that list. I think the point is that advertising is providing you an ideal imagery to drive you to buy their product, truth and knowledge be damned.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Flaws are subjective depending on how a product doesn't match your needs. What would a company consider a flaw? The product is released as designed, with no obvious issues. Again, the knowledge is them telling you about the product. They don't make you do anything other than provide information. You're entirely in control of your decisions.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      > Flaws are subjective depending on how a product doesn't match your needs. What would a company consider a flaw? That's one part of the issue. A company's product might be the best product for some people's needs, but there might be another product that fits the needs of some market segment better. But the company doesn't care if their product is the best for that segment: a sale is a sale. They'll advertise the strong points of the product, ignoring the properties of the product which might make it unsuitable for some consumers. This doesn't benefit consumers. This might all seem obvious, but there are people on this thread who think advertising benefits consumers. > What would a company consider a flaw? The product is released as designed, with no obvious issues. This is really, really not true, and I am not entirely sure you are making a good faith argument here. I work hard at my job, but I've never released a product that didn't have bugs and tradeoffs. > Again, the knowledge is them telling you about the product. They don't make you do anything other than provide information. You're entirely in control of your decisions. Your decisions are only as good as the information you have, and advertising deliberately gives you wrong or incomplete information.