4 ms·

What does the difference between "secret organization" vs "organization of secrets" mean?

by overthemoon 7y ago

ragebol 7y ago
Well, I know they exist, so if the former was a goal, that failed.
- sangnoir 7y ago
  I don't think they named the "Secret Service" based on its existence being kept secret either - rather, their business is secret. I don't think that was a goal considering how avidly they plaster Masonry symbols everywhere - including on their temples
  - skyyler 7y ago
    Actually, the Secret Service was originally an undercover anti-counterfeiting group. I do believe its existence was kept secret for a time.
    - sangnoir 7y ago
      I'm genuinely curious: may you please provide more information about how it was "undercover"? None of the references I've found suggest that knowledge of its existence was kept under wraps at the time of its founding in 1865[1] - it was merely the federal agency responsible for countering counterfeit currency, and that doesn't require secrecy. I suspect the whole 007-like mystique only arose much later - after it was tasked with protecting the president in 1901/2 1. not-so-fun-fact: Lincoln was assassinated while the legislation to create the USSS was awaiting his signature on his desk
glckr 7y ago
They're publicly well known, and as far as I'm aware they don't have any rules against telling people you're a member. Many of their temples/lodges/whatever you want to call them are identified somewhere on the facade (Freemasons' Hall in Edinburgh for example is available for hire as an event space). However, what they do and talk about within the lodge is secret.
- hokumguru 7y ago
  AFAIK there's no explicit rules against telling others that you're a member of the brotherhood
- msla 7y ago
  > They're publicly well known, and as far as I'm aware they don't have any rules against telling people you're a member. 2B1ask1 is a Freemason slogan: To become a Freemason, ask one about joining. http://freemasoninformation.com/2b1ask1/ http://freemasoninformation.com/2b1ask1/ In fact, from the page: > If you are seeking Membership YOU MUST ASK a Mason or a Masonic Lodge for an application. Can't very well ask one if the fact they're Masons is supposed to be a secret.
bovermyer 7y ago
The line is actually closer to "we're not a secret society, we're a society with secrets." Basically, it means that we're not a shadow organization that cloaks all it does in secrecy. Rather, we are a public organization that guards some internal knowledge behind closed doors and cyphers.
- tartoran 7y ago
  This euphemism makes it look like it is a lot more transparent this way, but it isn't really if secrets are being guarded from the outside world. The only different thing is that it not being a shadow organization there's a possibility one can join its ranks.
MockObject 7y ago
I feel like a "secret organization" wouldn't be listed in phone directories or have public websites. Every government and corporation has a few secrets, but I don't think they're "secret organizations", rather, they're "organizations with secrets".
msla 7y ago
I'm not a secret person, I'm a person with secrets. I exist and live a life with plenty of people knowing my name but I don't broadcast every single little thing. I keep some things secret. (OK, I'm kinda secret here, because I'm not going to give anyone my email address. But I don't adopt a pseudonym in the physical world.)

What does the difference between "secret organization" vs "organization of secrets" mean?

ragebol 7y ago

Well, I know they exist, so if the former was a goal, that failed.

sangnoir 7y ago
I don't think they named the "Secret Service" based on its existence being kept secret either - rather, their business is secret. I don't think that was a goal considering how avidly they plaster Masonry symbols everywhere - including on their temples
- skyyler 7y ago
  Actually, the Secret Service was originally an undercover anti-counterfeiting group. I do believe its existence was kept secret for a time.
  - sangnoir 7y ago
    I'm genuinely curious: may you please provide more information about how it was "undercover"? None of the references I've found suggest that knowledge of its existence was kept under wraps at the time of its founding in 1865[1] - it was merely the federal agency responsible for countering counterfeit currency, and that doesn't require secrecy. I suspect the whole 007-like mystique only arose much later - after it was tasked with protecting the president in 1901/2 1. not-so-fun-fact: Lincoln was assassinated while the legislation to create the USSS was awaiting his signature on his desk

glckr 7y ago

They're publicly well known, and as far as I'm aware they don't have any rules against telling people you're a member. Many of their temples/lodges/whatever you want to call them are identified somewhere on the facade (Freemasons' Hall in Edinburgh for example is available for hire as an event space). However, what they do and talk about within the lodge is secret.

hokumguru 7y ago
AFAIK there's no explicit rules against telling others that you're a member of the brotherhood
msla 7y ago
> They're publicly well known, and as far as I'm aware they don't have any rules against telling people you're a member. 2B1ask1 is a Freemason slogan: To become a Freemason, ask one about joining. http://freemasoninformation.com/2b1ask1/ http://freemasoninformation.com/2b1ask1/ In fact, from the page: > If you are seeking Membership YOU MUST ASK a Mason or a Masonic Lodge for an application. Can't very well ask one if the fact they're Masons is supposed to be a secret.

bovermyer 7y ago

The line is actually closer to "we're not a secret society, we're a society with secrets." Basically, it means that we're not a shadow organization that cloaks all it does in secrecy. Rather, we are a public organization that guards some internal knowledge behind closed doors and cyphers.

tartoran 7y ago
This euphemism makes it look like it is a lot more transparent this way, but it isn't really if secrets are being guarded from the outside world. The only different thing is that it not being a shadow organization there's a possibility one can join its ranks.

MockObject 7y ago

I feel like a "secret organization" wouldn't be listed in phone directories or have public websites. Every government and corporation has a few secrets, but I don't think they're "secret organizations", rather, they're "organizations with secrets".

msla 7y ago

I'm not a secret person, I'm a person with secrets. I exist and live a life with plenty of people knowing my name but I don't broadcast every single little thing. I keep some things secret. (OK, I'm kinda secret here, because I'm not going to give anyone my email address. But I don't adopt a pseudonym in the physical world.)