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While this is certainly true, computers and especially mobile ones need to allow consumers to run whatever software they want period. While in the US, it become

While this is certainly true, computers and especially mobile ones need to allow consumers to run whatever software they want period. While in the US, it becomes a small inconvenience for us that companies like Netflix and Spotify are having their business sidelined by apple, Apples lock on phones becomes a human rights issue in places like Hong Kong, Russia and Saudi Arabia when Apple complies with local regulation. While consumers with money have the choice to leave iPhone and go with Android, we as a society need to push back on the idea that you as a consumer don’t have the final say of what software can and cannot be run on a device you own. Plus long term, the technology industry would be healthier to push back against Big Tech keeping an iron grip on these platforms. In the last year that Apple has turned every default app on its phone into a $10 a month optional premium service. This marginal increase in service revenue will starve the news industry, compete unfairly against Netflix and HBO, eviscerate the remaining paid mobile game industry, and scare any fintech start up / vc playing anywhere near apples potential roadmap. And Apple isn’t even doing that good of a job at these new services - they just have the luxury of making the iPhone which is so good that it makes up for them doing everything else mediocrely

jp555 7y ago
"computers and especially mobile ones need to allow consumers to run whatever software they want period." I should expect to be able to run Windows on my coffee maker? That's a bit of an exaggeration of course, but I do not think this is an important "need". It's Utopian garbage. A top down "simple solution" that is appealing on the surface but deeply flawed in the complex interconnected systems of reality. You can already buy an Android device if you want more flexibility, and you can even get a developer account with Apple and make your own custom software if you really wanted. But telling everyone that they must have what you have decided is important is a garbage idea.
- julianozen 7y ago
  We can play this game for any appliance but we know that your mobile phone and laptop is uniquely special in this regard. When Apple gets to decide everything that runs on your device, it’s bad for you in the long term. As an iOS developer who loves my phone, I’ve worked on teams that have dealt with complete bs that I shouldn’t divulge here, trying to get Apple to approve our app. we werent doing onerous data collection. we weren’t writing spam or malware. Just Apple’s bureaucratic and anti-competitive nonsense. Apples should not have the decision about whether to allow or pull the Hong Kong protesting app. It’s too much power for a private company to make
  - jp555 7y ago
    The root of the problems with Apple's approvals (and I totally agree it's very messed up!) is in the top-down central management. The same kind of problems would inevitably arise from all top-down solutions like mandating all companies MUST act a certain way. I dont think we need more regulations, but LESS - and let markets decide.
- anoncake 7y ago
  > I should expect to be able to run Windows on my coffee maker? Yes, of course. To satisfy your pedantry: You should be able to put whatever software you want on your personal property and expect the device to boot it rather than refusing because it isn't signed by the powers that be. It's about freedom, not omnipotence. > That's a bit of an exaggeration of course, but I do not think this is an important "need". You do not get to decide what's important to other people. If you don't want care about running custom software, just don't do it. > You can already buy an Android device if you want more flexibility If Apple's lock in tactics didn't work. Also it means you have to choose between the things that made you go with Apple to begin with and freedom – even though you could easily have both if not for Apple's artificial restrictions.
ubermonkey 7y ago
>While this is certainly true, computers and especially mobile ones need to allow consumers to run whatever software they want period. GOOD LORD NO. Apple's curation of the iOS environment is a FEATURE for me, not a bug. It leads to drastically increased stability and security, and means I don't have to sysadmin my telephone. I'll fight whoever suggests this is a good model for the desktop, but on the phone it's EXACTLY what I want. >While consumers with money have the choice to leave iPhone and go with Android Uh, no. Android phones are generally CHEAPER, so why does it take "money" to leave iOS?
- julianozen 7y ago
  Apple has lied to us to make us believe that in order to have a secure device, we have to allow them to hand review every app that goes into the store. This is a false dichotomy. We can have alternate App Stores run by other trusted/neutral entities or app side loading or certificates and tools like gatekeeper for iOS. We can have an App Store where Apple does not censor things that don’t meet its curation preferences (like nudity, vape/weed apps and previously crypto). I don’t even understand consumers who defend apples right to make these choices on our behalf > I'll fight whoever suggests this is a good model for the desktop, but on the phone it's EXACTLY what I want. This should apply to mobile too. Keep our phones secure, but give us the freedom to make our own choices
  - ubermonkey 7y ago
    They haven't lied. They've said that this is HOW they're keeping the platform secure. Perhaps there are other ways, but this is the path they've chosen. >We can have alternate App Stores run by other trusted/neutral entities or app side loading or certificates and tools like gatekeeper for iOS. You could, if Apple wanted. Apple doesn't want to. If you want that, use another platform. I'm 100% fine with the phone being curated by the vendor in this way, largely because I trust Apple and Apple's motivations here. (I wouldn't trust Google in a similar situation, since their revenue is dependent on advertising and monetizing data about their users.)
    - 7y ago

jp555 7y ago

"computers and especially mobile ones need to allow consumers to run whatever software they want period." I should expect to be able to run Windows on my coffee maker? That's a bit of an exaggeration of course, but I do not think this is an important "need". It's Utopian garbage. A top down "simple solution" that is appealing on the surface but deeply flawed in the complex interconnected systems of reality. You can already buy an Android device if you want more flexibility, and you can even get a developer account with Apple and make your own custom software if you really wanted. But telling everyone that they must have what you have decided is important is a garbage idea.

julianozen 7y ago
We can play this game for any appliance but we know that your mobile phone and laptop is uniquely special in this regard. When Apple gets to decide everything that runs on your device, it’s bad for you in the long term. As an iOS developer who loves my phone, I’ve worked on teams that have dealt with complete bs that I shouldn’t divulge here, trying to get Apple to approve our app. we werent doing onerous data collection. we weren’t writing spam or malware. Just Apple’s bureaucratic and anti-competitive nonsense. Apples should not have the decision about whether to allow or pull the Hong Kong protesting app. It’s too much power for a private company to make
- jp555 7y ago
  The root of the problems with Apple's approvals (and I totally agree it's very messed up!) is in the top-down central management. The same kind of problems would inevitably arise from all top-down solutions like mandating all companies MUST act a certain way. I dont think we need more regulations, but LESS - and let markets decide.
anoncake 7y ago
> I should expect to be able to run Windows on my coffee maker? Yes, of course. To satisfy your pedantry: You should be able to put whatever software you want on your personal property and expect the device to boot it rather than refusing because it isn't signed by the powers that be. It's about freedom, not omnipotence. > That's a bit of an exaggeration of course, but I do not think this is an important "need". You do not get to decide what's important to other people. If you don't want care about running custom software, just don't do it. > You can already buy an Android device if you want more flexibility If Apple's lock in tactics didn't work. Also it means you have to choose between the things that made you go with Apple to begin with and freedom – even though you could easily have both if not for Apple's artificial restrictions.

ubermonkey 7y ago

>While this is certainly true, computers and especially mobile ones need to allow consumers to run whatever software they want period. GOOD LORD NO. Apple's curation of the iOS environment is a FEATURE for me, not a bug. It leads to drastically increased stability and security, and means I don't have to sysadmin my telephone. I'll fight whoever suggests this is a good model for the desktop, but on the phone it's EXACTLY what I want. >While consumers with money have the choice to leave iPhone and go with Android Uh, no. Android phones are generally CHEAPER, so why does it take "money" to leave iOS?

julianozen 7y ago
Apple has lied to us to make us believe that in order to have a secure device, we have to allow them to hand review every app that goes into the store. This is a false dichotomy. We can have alternate App Stores run by other trusted/neutral entities or app side loading or certificates and tools like gatekeeper for iOS. We can have an App Store where Apple does not censor things that don’t meet its curation preferences (like nudity, vape/weed apps and previously crypto). I don’t even understand consumers who defend apples right to make these choices on our behalf > I'll fight whoever suggests this is a good model for the desktop, but on the phone it's EXACTLY what I want. This should apply to mobile too. Keep our phones secure, but give us the freedom to make our own choices
- ubermonkey 7y ago
  They haven't lied. They've said that this is HOW they're keeping the platform secure. Perhaps there are other ways, but this is the path they've chosen. >We can have alternate App Stores run by other trusted/neutral entities or app side loading or certificates and tools like gatekeeper for iOS. You could, if Apple wanted. Apple doesn't want to. If you want that, use another platform. I'm 100% fine with the phone being curated by the vendor in this way, largely because I trust Apple and Apple's motivations here. (I wouldn't trust Google in a similar situation, since their revenue is dependent on advertising and monetizing data about their users.)
  - 7y ago