5 ms·

Sure has a lot of immigration from outside the West for a gated community [1]. On the other hand, non-Western countries have near-zero Western immigration, or e

by deogeo 7y ago

Sure has a lot of immigration from outside the West for a gated community [1]. On the other hand, non-Western countries have near-zero Western immigration, or even inter-continental migration among themselves. So much so that, when viewed with a granularity on the scale of an India, China, or North-/Sub-Saharan Africa, they're nearly perfectly homogeneous, in stark contrast to the "closed, gated" West. [1] https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/03/14/the-us-will-become-minority-white-in-2045-census-projects/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/03/14/the-us-...

eesmith 7y ago
"Gated community" doesn't mean there's no population exchange. After all, the initial population in a new gated community area may be zero. Instead, I think a better metric is the number of people who move to X vs. those who want and can afford to move to X, but are prevented because of a non-reciprocal policy by X. (I'm fine with some restrictions - nearly all countries have some restrictions; Svalbard, Norway being one of the rare exceptions. The above is a hand-wavy way of trying to not get stuck on that detail. The main point is that free movement of people/labor should be like the free movement of money/capital.) Think back to Jim Crow era US. Blacks may want to move to region of town but not allowed by deed restriction. While whites could move to the few areas of town "red-lined" for blacks, with no legal prohibition. They didn't - quite the opposite, in a process known as "white-flight." (Some blacks, particularly wealthy ones, could also move out, as well as black people who were employed as help for white families.) So, just because non-white regions have near-zero white immigration doesn't mean that they are "closed, gated" and the the white areas are not. Which suggests that your interpretation isn't a useful way of understanding what "closed, gated" means. There's also the physical dimension. Quoting the text: > At the end of the Cold War, there were just 15 walls separating countries from each other. Now there are at least 70 walled borders worldwide. Since the fall of the Wall, thousands of miles of steel and concrete walls have gone up on international borders.
- deogeo 7y ago
  > those who want and can afford to move to X, but are prevented because of a non-reciprocal policy by X. It's easy to have open borders if hardly anyone takes advantage of it, so looking at reciprocity isn't very relevant. Faced with rising immigration, non-Western countries tend to adopt restrictions as well (see NPR link on Brazil). Furthermore, China will only grant citizenship to ethnic Chinese, whereas the West takes in many Chinese immigrants, so in this case, the non-reciprocity is in the other direction. A quick search failed to turn up what restrictions other non-Western countries have, but there's no lack of border walls - a few random examples from every non-Western continent: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/india-installs-laser-walls-border-pakistan-n564051 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/india-installs-laser-wall... https://www.seeker.com/why-india-is-building-the-longest-border-wall-in-the-world-1501495427.html https://www.seeker.com/why-india-is-building-the-longest-bor... https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/will-pakistans-wall-work/ https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/will-pakistans-wall-work/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/11/13/chinas-building-a-wall-any-lessons-for-trump https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/11/13/chinas-b... https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/16/184524306/brazil-looks-to-build-a-10-000-mile-virtual-fence https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/16/184524306/... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/22/western-sahara-wall-morocco-trump https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/22/western-sahara...
  - eesmith 7y ago
    "Faced with rising immigration, non-Western countries tend to adopt restrictions as well" Sure. The article itself mentions "Not all border walls are between the First World and the Rest of the World." and uses as examples the wall between India and Bangladesh (your #2 link) and Moracco's Berm (your #6), so clearly it wasn't making the point that the West was the only gated community. My point was to argue that your definition doesn't seem a reasonable as it doesn't really apply to actual gated communities, much less the metaphorical comparison used here. Other interpretations may be more valid, and demonstrate the incorrectness of "'The West' is, in fact, the world's biggest gated community", but I don't think yours does.

by deogeo 7y ago

eesmith 7y ago

"Gated community" doesn't mean there's no population exchange. After all, the initial population in a new gated community area may be zero. Instead, I think a better metric is the number of people who move to X vs. those who want and can afford to move to X, but are prevented because of a non-reciprocal policy by X. (I'm fine with some restrictions - nearly all countries have some restrictions; Svalbard, Norway being one of the rare exceptions. The above is a hand-wavy way of trying to not get stuck on that detail. The main point is that free movement of people/labor should be like the free movement of money/capital.) Think back to Jim Crow era US. Blacks may want to move to region of town but not allowed by deed restriction. While whites could move to the few areas of town "red-lined" for blacks, with no legal prohibition. They didn't - quite the opposite, in a process known as "white-flight." (Some blacks, particularly wealthy ones, could also move out, as well as black people who were employed as help for white families.) So, just because non-white regions have near-zero white immigration doesn't mean that they are "closed, gated" and the the white areas are not. Which suggests that your interpretation isn't a useful way of understanding what "closed, gated" means. There's also the physical dimension. Quoting the text: > At the end of the Cold War, there were just 15 walls separating countries from each other. Now there are at least 70 walled borders worldwide. Since the fall of the Wall, thousands of miles of steel and concrete walls have gone up on international borders.

deogeo 7y ago
> those who want and can afford to move to X, but are prevented because of a non-reciprocal policy by X. It's easy to have open borders if hardly anyone takes advantage of it, so looking at reciprocity isn't very relevant. Faced with rising immigration, non-Western countries tend to adopt restrictions as well (see NPR link on Brazil). Furthermore, China will only grant citizenship to ethnic Chinese, whereas the West takes in many Chinese immigrants, so in this case, the non-reciprocity is in the other direction. A quick search failed to turn up what restrictions other non-Western countries have, but there's no lack of border walls - a few random examples from every non-Western continent: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/india-installs-laser-walls-border-pakistan-n564051 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/india-installs-laser-wall... https://www.seeker.com/why-india-is-building-the-longest-border-wall-in-the-world-1501495427.html https://www.seeker.com/why-india-is-building-the-longest-bor... https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/will-pakistans-wall-work/ https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/will-pakistans-wall-work/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/11/13/chinas-building-a-wall-any-lessons-for-trump https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/11/13/chinas-b... https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/16/184524306/brazil-looks-to-build-a-10-000-mile-virtual-fence https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/16/184524306/... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/22/western-sahara-wall-morocco-trump https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/22/western-sahara...
- eesmith 7y ago
  "Faced with rising immigration, non-Western countries tend to adopt restrictions as well" Sure. The article itself mentions "Not all border walls are between the First World and the Rest of the World." and uses as examples the wall between India and Bangladesh (your #2 link) and Moracco's Berm (your #6), so clearly it wasn't making the point that the West was the only gated community. My point was to argue that your definition doesn't seem a reasonable as it doesn't really apply to actual gated communities, much less the metaphorical comparison used here. Other interpretations may be more valid, and demonstrate the incorrectness of "'The West' is, in fact, the world's biggest gated community", but I don't think yours does.