12 ms·

Something odd about this argument is the fact that 30% is pretty much an industry standard. Apple isn't jacking up the price.

cjfd 7y ago
There is more going on besides price. The review process is also completely arbitrary. I don't like the whole thing that the only place to get apps is the app store. I will never buy any apple device as long as that is in place.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  That’s exactly what keeps me buying Apple for my family and I. I credit their locked down App Store with saving me from spending hundreds of hours of my time dealing with malware over the last 10 years.
  - strbean 7y ago
    I've used android phones for a decade now and never once been affected by malware. If the issue is kids installing shady apps, you should probably use a parental lock for that.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      The issue is people clicking on every link that comes their way via email or whatsapp. And since I can’t stop them from clicking them, my only solution is to have them use iOS devices.
smilespray 7y ago
I thought Apple was the originator of the 30% cut for app stores, and everybody else followed suit?
- stuaxo 7y ago
  Yes, this is true. People forget that there were phones before the iPhone decided all phones would be rectangles with touchscreens. Those phones ran apps and games, and you downloaded them from app stores... there was in fact a cambrian explosion of app stores, when you made software you had to publish it to hundreds of them. I can't remember the %, but it seems unlikely, in the fact of all that competition that it was as high as 30%.
  - DagAgren 7y ago
    There were not really any public app stores like the Apple one. And cuts were, in general, much higher. Apple's app store took off so well because it offered a much better deal than the competition.
    - e_y_ 7y ago
      Apple's App Store didn't really have competition. The iPhone was pretty much an entirely new class of smartphone. The sheer volume of users compared to early smartphones meant you could sell an app for $1.99 and make loads of money, compared to Palm/WinMo apps that were more like $10+. It took off because it was a good experience (one stop shopping) and because of the popularity of the iPhone. And of course it doesn't hurt that it was the only App Store for iOS.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        In Europe your phone providers were also one stop shopping.
    - thepangolino 7y ago
      This is just wrong. Nokia had the Ovi store launched at around the same time as Apple’s App Store. Palm OS also had its own if I remember correctly.
      - DagAgren 7y ago
pentae 7y ago
Industry standard compared to what? Certainly not credit card processing, which typically runs 3% to 5%. If you're referring to Google Play, well they just copied Apple. And at least on Android you can side-load.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > If you're referring to Google Play, well they just copied Apple. And at least on Android you can side-load. It's ironic how some people seem to like saying "well they just copied Apple" and expect Google to be absolved of the actions they think are bad, but for everything else they would vehemently deny Google copying Apple.
- falcolas 7y ago
  Sony. Microsoft. Steam. Nintendo. Many physical retailers.
synthmeat 7y ago
I don't see it mentioned (at all), but my hypothesis for 30% is that it is because of money laundering. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to provide gift cards, would have to limit spending per app, cap all the prices, monitor whale spenders, etc. Easiest just to make it unprofitable.
- dannyw 7y ago
  Considering that: * iTunes gift cards regularly go on sale for 60-70% of its value on third party markets, and * 30% is a reasonable, to cheap, price to pay for money laundering, I think your theory is unfounded.
  - synthmeat 7y ago
    Where did you get the "30%"? Last time I researched, it was much less than that. Even at casual glance now, highest figures seem to be at most 15%. https://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/381/3iie3705.pdf https://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/381/3iie3... Gift cards would be the least efficient method here for large amounts, so I guess it would not surprise me it's not used there. No one's gonna go hunting small amounts of gift cards on discount on ebay to launder tens of millions of dollars. But who knows...
- mrr54 7y ago
  30% is a pretty small price to pay for money laundering.
ksec 7y ago
I think the 30% is a rough industry standard in most Retail sectors. Apple was basically pricing the App Store like an Online Retail store.
- heisenbit 7y ago
  Yes, it was a reasonable take way back. But technology moved on and is fact that most of the technology advances accrued with Apple and not with consumers or developers. And this power position is locked by technical and legal means thus there is no possibility for others to wade in.
Aozi 7y ago
The argument here is that if you want to produce an app for iOS you have to provide it through the App Store and thus succumb to the 30% fee. The same applies if you're using Apples payment processing, which you actually have to use if you want to offer any in-app purchases on iOS. In addition Apple is the sole authority on what is and is not allowed on their storefront. If they deem your app is not acceptable, you have no alternative ways to distribute it to users. They can also kick you out if they think it's necessary, again leaving you with no alternatives. Google does the same thing with Play Store. If you sell an app in Play Store, Google takes 30%. If you use Goolges payment processing, Google takes 30%. They can kick you out, not permit you in the store, etc. The difference is that a developer isn't forced to use the play Store or Googles payment processing. You can distribute your APK in any way you want to and users can install any APK from any location they want to. You can absolutely sell your Android games on your own website and just provide an APK to a paying user and now you don't have to pay 30% out of every purchase. If you want to provide in-app purchases the user can provide their CC information and you're free to process the payment in any way you want to, again, circumventing Goolges cut. This is the primary reason you can't get Fortnite from the play store, instead you have to download an install an APK. Epic also uses their own payment processing systems, so they don't need to pay anything to Google for IAPs. They can't do that on their iOS apps, meaning they're losing on some hefty profits simply because no alternative exists. So it's not that Apple is jacking up the profits, rather you could say that you need to pay a hefty tax to provide your app to iOS users.
- kyle-rb 7y ago
  >This is the primary reason you can't get Fortnite from the play store, instead you have to download an install an APK. Epic also uses their own payment processing systems, so they don't need to pay anything to Google for IAPs. One important point on this is that the Play Store does allow some apps distributed within it to do billing themselves [0], but not games, which is why Fortnite is distributed outside the Play store. There are some other rules, but if you're building a cross-platform app, you should know that many Play Store distributed apps can do billing themselves on the grounds that they have "digital content that may be consumed outside of the app itself". Spotify and Netflix do their own billing on Android, as opposed to iOS, where the Netflix app has a button to call a phone number that plays a voice recording telling you to go to netflix.com (web links to sign-up pages aren't allowed). [0] https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/
summerlight 7y ago
The issue is that Apple is not allowing cheaper app stores even in theory. Android does.

cjfd 7y ago

There is more going on besides price. The review process is also completely arbitrary. I don't like the whole thing that the only place to get apps is the app store. I will never buy any apple device as long as that is in place.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
That’s exactly what keeps me buying Apple for my family and I. I credit their locked down App Store with saving me from spending hundreds of hours of my time dealing with malware over the last 10 years.
- strbean 7y ago
  I've used android phones for a decade now and never once been affected by malware. If the issue is kids installing shady apps, you should probably use a parental lock for that.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    The issue is people clicking on every link that comes their way via email or whatsapp. And since I can’t stop them from clicking them, my only solution is to have them use iOS devices.

smilespray 7y ago

I thought Apple was the originator of the 30% cut for app stores, and everybody else followed suit?

stuaxo 7y ago
Yes, this is true. People forget that there were phones before the iPhone decided all phones would be rectangles with touchscreens. Those phones ran apps and games, and you downloaded them from app stores... there was in fact a cambrian explosion of app stores, when you made software you had to publish it to hundreds of them. I can't remember the %, but it seems unlikely, in the fact of all that competition that it was as high as 30%.
- DagAgren 7y ago
  There were not really any public app stores like the Apple one. And cuts were, in general, much higher. Apple's app store took off so well because it offered a much better deal than the competition.
  - e_y_ 7y ago
    Apple's App Store didn't really have competition. The iPhone was pretty much an entirely new class of smartphone. The sheer volume of users compared to early smartphones meant you could sell an app for $1.99 and make loads of money, compared to Palm/WinMo apps that were more like $10+. It took off because it was a good experience (one stop shopping) and because of the popularity of the iPhone. And of course it doesn't hurt that it was the only App Store for iOS.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      In Europe your phone providers were also one stop shopping.
  - thepangolino 7y ago
    This is just wrong. Nokia had the Ovi store launched at around the same time as Apple’s App Store. Palm OS also had its own if I remember correctly.
    - DagAgren 7y ago

pentae 7y ago

Industry standard compared to what? Certainly not credit card processing, which typically runs 3% to 5%. If you're referring to Google Play, well they just copied Apple. And at least on Android you can side-load.

Razengan 7y ago
> If you're referring to Google Play, well they just copied Apple. And at least on Android you can side-load. It's ironic how some people seem to like saying "well they just copied Apple" and expect Google to be absolved of the actions they think are bad, but for everything else they would vehemently deny Google copying Apple.
falcolas 7y ago
Sony. Microsoft. Steam. Nintendo. Many physical retailers.

synthmeat 7y ago

I don't see it mentioned (at all), but my hypothesis for 30% is that it is because of money laundering. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to provide gift cards, would have to limit spending per app, cap all the prices, monitor whale spenders, etc. Easiest just to make it unprofitable.

dannyw 7y ago
Considering that: * iTunes gift cards regularly go on sale for 60-70% of its value on third party markets, and * 30% is a reasonable, to cheap, price to pay for money laundering, I think your theory is unfounded.
- synthmeat 7y ago
  Where did you get the "30%"? Last time I researched, it was much less than that. Even at casual glance now, highest figures seem to be at most 15%. https://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/381/3iie3705.pdf https://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/381/3iie3... Gift cards would be the least efficient method here for large amounts, so I guess it would not surprise me it's not used there. No one's gonna go hunting small amounts of gift cards on discount on ebay to launder tens of millions of dollars. But who knows...
mrr54 7y ago
30% is a pretty small price to pay for money laundering.

ksec 7y ago

I think the 30% is a rough industry standard in most Retail sectors. Apple was basically pricing the App Store like an Online Retail store.

heisenbit 7y ago
Yes, it was a reasonable take way back. But technology moved on and is fact that most of the technology advances accrued with Apple and not with consumers or developers. And this power position is locked by technical and legal means thus there is no possibility for others to wade in.

Aozi 7y ago

The argument here is that if you want to produce an app for iOS you have to provide it through the App Store and thus succumb to the 30% fee. The same applies if you're using Apples payment processing, which you actually have to use if you want to offer any in-app purchases on iOS. In addition Apple is the sole authority on what is and is not allowed on their storefront. If they deem your app is not acceptable, you have no alternative ways to distribute it to users. They can also kick you out if they think it's necessary, again leaving you with no alternatives. Google does the same thing with Play Store. If you sell an app in Play Store, Google takes 30%. If you use Goolges payment processing, Google takes 30%. They can kick you out, not permit you in the store, etc. The difference is that a developer isn't forced to use the play Store or Googles payment processing. You can distribute your APK in any way you want to and users can install any APK from any location they want to. You can absolutely sell your Android games on your own website and just provide an APK to a paying user and now you don't have to pay 30% out of every purchase. If you want to provide in-app purchases the user can provide their CC information and you're free to process the payment in any way you want to, again, circumventing Goolges cut. This is the primary reason you can't get Fortnite from the play store, instead you have to download an install an APK. Epic also uses their own payment processing systems, so they don't need to pay anything to Google for IAPs. They can't do that on their iOS apps, meaning they're losing on some hefty profits simply because no alternative exists. So it's not that Apple is jacking up the profits, rather you could say that you need to pay a hefty tax to provide your app to iOS users.

kyle-rb 7y ago
>This is the primary reason you can't get Fortnite from the play store, instead you have to download an install an APK. Epic also uses their own payment processing systems, so they don't need to pay anything to Google for IAPs. One important point on this is that the Play Store does allow some apps distributed within it to do billing themselves [0], but not games, which is why Fortnite is distributed outside the Play store. There are some other rules, but if you're building a cross-platform app, you should know that many Play Store distributed apps can do billing themselves on the grounds that they have "digital content that may be consumed outside of the app itself". Spotify and Netflix do their own billing on Android, as opposed to iOS, where the Netflix app has a button to call a phone number that plays a voice recording telling you to go to netflix.com (web links to sign-up pages aren't allowed). [0] https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/

summerlight 7y ago

The issue is that Apple is not allowing cheaper app stores even in theory. Android does.