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Love the comments. Lennart (likely Lennart Poettering) explains why it was done, to be anonymously snarked by someone who clearly doesn't like it or him. at all

by fargle 7y ago

Love the comments. Lennart (likely Lennart Poettering) explains why it was done, to be anonymously snarked by someone who clearly doesn't like it or him. at all. Lovely and so helpful. I don't know if I'm a systemd fan (yeah, I'm not), but there's nothing wrong with having more than 32K PIDs. At all. If your software breaks, it's stupid and broken and needs to be fixed.

mathw 7y ago
I've never understood the level of vitriol directed at systemd and Lennart. I can understand having technical disagreements, but the hate has been astonishing. And it's still going on.
tinus_hn 7y ago
Not a problem if Fedora decides this. But it is a problem if systemd decides this. Lennart needs to learn he doesn’t get to push his preferences on everyone, which this is. No it doesn’t cause problems. Yes it’s a preference, keep your hands off of it.
- jraph 7y ago
  Well, if this does not cause problems and it improves some things, it is probably a better default, no? Distributions using systemd may still change the default if they wish.
  - tinus_hn 7y ago
    No, it’s a preference. Don’t make excuses. Note that this is exactly the reason why anything Lennart does is met with vitriol. He can’t keep his hands out of the cookie jar and when challenged, he and his supporters bring on the excuses. It is not for Lennart or his supporters to decide what’s better for me. That’s for the distributors to decide. Systemd does not get to decide preferences and neither does it get to set defaults.
    - fargle 7y ago
      What do you mean a "preference"? It's a setting in a config file. The distro can take it as is, change it, or not use systemd. It could patch systemd, fork it too, although changing the config file (or probably override it in /etc) would be much easier. Why did Fedora leave it the way upstream did? Because it's probably a good default. Every UNIX I know of has had this 20 years ago. > cookie jar The INIT daemon is pretty tightly involved in PIDs. So, not really hand in the cookie jar, in this case. Audio subsystem, imho, not part of init's job. Bugs? Bloat? not good. If you want to criticize systemd, this is NOT the thing to complain over.
      - tinus_hn 7y ago
        So because it can be changed it’s not a problem systemd is changing the default behind the distributions back? And because there are worse things it’s not a problem? Systemd does not get to set the defaults to Lennarts preferences. And if it tries to, it deserves all the vitriol that results.
        fargle 7y ago
        How is it behind anyone's back? Fedora made the change by updating to a new systemd and accepting it's defaults and behavior. They could have easily changed back or to whatever else they wanted with a one line config change. It was clearly Fedora that chose this setting for their distro, not Lennart (of course he's always personally is solely responsible, right?). Fedora just decided that as of 31 it was fine to use systemd and also have big PIDs. It's also not a problem because behavior related to PID management is a major part of the job for the init daemon. Like it or not, init is central to the bring-up and management of userspace and processes, so after the kernel or maybe glibc, it's one of the few other packages that should reasonably own this setting. So it's not like systemd in this case is overextending into questionably relevant areas. But vitriol for an upstream changing it's way of doing things? vitriol for an upstream even having a preference? vitriol for any reason at all about a triviality like this? For what's pretty clearly a better preference at that? This tells me that there is baseless irrationality and unwarranted emotions going on to a level that I find absolutely shocking. Bottom line: If someone makes something and gives it to you for free, you are way out of line to criticize them for making it they way they wanted to. You are looking at a Fedora Gift Horse that contains a systemd Gift Horse in the mouth. And then complaining that, while arguably better, it's wrong in principle for them to have given it to you they way they did. If you don't like the thing that Lennart and his folks made and gave to you for free with no strings attached, stop using it! Go make something better. Fix it! Fork it! Stage a systemd maintainer hostile coup and lead them to push out only your desired preferences if you want. You don't like that Fedora used systemd and allowed them to set this setting, and then gave it to you for free. Same answer. Don't spew anger about things you got for free that no one made you take.

by fargle 7y ago

mathw 7y ago

I've never understood the level of vitriol directed at systemd and Lennart. I can understand having technical disagreements, but the hate has been astonishing. And it's still going on.

tinus_hn 7y ago

Not a problem if Fedora decides this. But it is a problem if systemd decides this. Lennart needs to learn he doesn’t get to push his preferences on everyone, which this is. No it doesn’t cause problems. Yes it’s a preference, keep your hands off of it.

jraph 7y ago
Well, if this does not cause problems and it improves some things, it is probably a better default, no? Distributions using systemd may still change the default if they wish.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  No, it’s a preference. Don’t make excuses. Note that this is exactly the reason why anything Lennart does is met with vitriol. He can’t keep his hands out of the cookie jar and when challenged, he and his supporters bring on the excuses. It is not for Lennart or his supporters to decide what’s better for me. That’s for the distributors to decide. Systemd does not get to decide preferences and neither does it get to set defaults.
  - fargle 7y ago
    What do you mean a "preference"? It's a setting in a config file. The distro can take it as is, change it, or not use systemd. It could patch systemd, fork it too, although changing the config file (or probably override it in /etc) would be much easier. Why did Fedora leave it the way upstream did? Because it's probably a good default. Every UNIX I know of has had this 20 years ago. > cookie jar The INIT daemon is pretty tightly involved in PIDs. So, not really hand in the cookie jar, in this case. Audio subsystem, imho, not part of init's job. Bugs? Bloat? not good. If you want to criticize systemd, this is NOT the thing to complain over.
    - tinus_hn 7y ago
      So because it can be changed it’s not a problem systemd is changing the default behind the distributions back? And because there are worse things it’s not a problem? Systemd does not get to set the defaults to Lennarts preferences. And if it tries to, it deserves all the vitriol that results.
      - fargle 7y ago
        How is it behind anyone's back? Fedora made the change by updating to a new systemd and accepting it's defaults and behavior. They could have easily changed back or to whatever else they wanted with a one line config change. It was clearly Fedora that chose this setting for their distro, not Lennart (of course he's always personally is solely responsible, right?). Fedora just decided that as of 31 it was fine to use systemd and also have big PIDs. It's also not a problem because behavior related to PID management is a major part of the job for the init daemon. Like it or not, init is central to the bring-up and management of userspace and processes, so after the kernel or maybe glibc, it's one of the few other packages that should reasonably own this setting. So it's not like systemd in this case is overextending into questionably relevant areas. But vitriol for an upstream changing it's way of doing things? vitriol for an upstream even having a preference? vitriol for any reason at all about a triviality like this? For what's pretty clearly a better preference at that? This tells me that there is baseless irrationality and unwarranted emotions going on to a level that I find absolutely shocking. Bottom line: If someone makes something and gives it to you for free, you are way out of line to criticize them for making it they way they wanted to. You are looking at a Fedora Gift Horse that contains a systemd Gift Horse in the mouth. And then complaining that, while arguably better, it's wrong in principle for them to have given it to you they way they did. If you don't like the thing that Lennart and his folks made and gave to you for free with no strings attached, stop using it! Go make something better. Fix it! Fork it! Stage a systemd maintainer hostile coup and lead them to push out only your desired preferences if you want. You don't like that Fedora used systemd and allowed them to set this setting, and then gave it to you for free. Same answer. Don't spew anger about things you got for free that no one made you take.