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How would autonomous killing be precisely defined? Whenever a machine is designed to kill without an affirmative command from a human operator? Would that inc

How would autonomous killing be precisely defined? Whenever a machine is designed to kill without an affirmative command from a human operator? Would that include landminds? Maybe it should...

pageandrew 7y ago
good point. autonomous killing is nothing new.
joshvm 7y ago
There are plenty of fire-and-forget weapons that will attack a designated target autonomously. Some may even be totally automated, like CIWS, if you put them in some paranoid mode. A landmine is indiscriminate, by that logic anything with a triggerable fuze is autonomous (even a snare trap would be). The difference would be if the landmine chose to explode based on some other factor. Autonomy and intelligence are not the same thing.
- satanspastaroll 7y ago
  Well landmines can discriminate by atleast weight and magnetism. I think they can also count the tracks and blow up later if they want to
  - cf141q5325 7y ago
    The action is however caused by a human who mined the area, its just delayed, similar to how a grenade has a delay after the human activation, before it explodes. You can make the same distinction with an automatic gun or turret. You position it in an area in which you decide to kill anyone in it. Autonomy gets truly dangerous because you dont need to create death zones and no mans land. They are not a less violent version of just bombing the area. They can run considerations and decide by themselves who to kill and with this, their usage outside of active front lines will be considered. And with that, the people deploying them give up the decision and delegate it to an algorithm or worse yet, a trained black box. Reality will be to have completely unaccountable killers bots flying over countries who cant defend themselves against foreign aggression. This stuff has absolutely horrible potential and i find it prudent to shame and cut out anyone with a sufficient lack of a spine to work in this area. As unpopular as it is to consider the impact of the technology you are developing, it is taught for a reason in a CS degree. This work has the potential to screw over humanity for a while to come.
i_am_proteus 7y ago
Some ability to loiter and choose targets via algorithm. Mines can't move, and guided missiles are spatially and temporally bounded in what they can target. There have already been cases of "autonomous" targeting, such as in 1982 when Exocet missiles fired by Argentine aircraft at a British warship selected a cargo ship instead (possibly due to countermeasures used by the warship). In this case, the weapon hit a target not intended by the firing unit. Of course, unguided weapons do this all the time...
- catalogia 7y ago
  > Mines, [...] and guided missiles The combination of the two is interesting. The Mark 60 CAPTOR is a naval mine that launches an acoustically guided Mark 46 torpedo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_46_torpedo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_46_torpedo
pmichaud 7y ago
I believe landmines (of the type used in wars of the past) are not allowed by international law anymore, precisely because of the problems that come with them going off on whoever happens to be there, including far into the future.

How would autonomous killing be precisely defined? Whenever a machine is designed to kill without an affirmative command from a human operator? Would that include landminds? Maybe it should...

pageandrew 7y ago

good point. autonomous killing is nothing new.

joshvm 7y ago

There are plenty of fire-and-forget weapons that will attack a designated target autonomously. Some may even be totally automated, like CIWS, if you put them in some paranoid mode. A landmine is indiscriminate, by that logic anything with a triggerable fuze is autonomous (even a snare trap would be). The difference would be if the landmine chose to explode based on some other factor. Autonomy and intelligence are not the same thing.

satanspastaroll 7y ago
Well landmines can discriminate by atleast weight and magnetism. I think they can also count the tracks and blow up later if they want to
- cf141q5325 7y ago
  The action is however caused by a human who mined the area, its just delayed, similar to how a grenade has a delay after the human activation, before it explodes. You can make the same distinction with an automatic gun or turret. You position it in an area in which you decide to kill anyone in it. Autonomy gets truly dangerous because you dont need to create death zones and no mans land. They are not a less violent version of just bombing the area. They can run considerations and decide by themselves who to kill and with this, their usage outside of active front lines will be considered. And with that, the people deploying them give up the decision and delegate it to an algorithm or worse yet, a trained black box. Reality will be to have completely unaccountable killers bots flying over countries who cant defend themselves against foreign aggression. This stuff has absolutely horrible potential and i find it prudent to shame and cut out anyone with a sufficient lack of a spine to work in this area. As unpopular as it is to consider the impact of the technology you are developing, it is taught for a reason in a CS degree. This work has the potential to screw over humanity for a while to come.

i_am_proteus 7y ago

Some ability to loiter and choose targets via algorithm. Mines can't move, and guided missiles are spatially and temporally bounded in what they can target. There have already been cases of "autonomous" targeting, such as in 1982 when Exocet missiles fired by Argentine aircraft at a British warship selected a cargo ship instead (possibly due to countermeasures used by the warship). In this case, the weapon hit a target not intended by the firing unit. Of course, unguided weapons do this all the time...

catalogia 7y ago
> Mines, [...] and guided missiles The combination of the two is interesting. The Mark 60 CAPTOR is a naval mine that launches an acoustically guided Mark 46 torpedo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_46_torpedo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_46_torpedo

pmichaud 7y ago

I believe landmines (of the type used in wars of the past) are not allowed by international law anymore, precisely because of the problems that come with them going off on whoever happens to be there, including far into the future.