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That's nice. Where's the money for that going to come from? Because such groups already exist in small numbers - it's not like the existence of capitalist land

That's nice. Where's the money for that going to come from? Because such groups already exist in small numbers - it's not like the existence of capitalist landlords prevents coops or charities from existing.

Pfhreak 7y ago
> Where's the money for that going to come from? Us. If we think housing people is important. Increasing taxes, reducing spending on other areas, etc. It's interesting to me that people seem to always ask, "How are we going to pay for this?" when HUD's entire budget is ~$60B/year. Compared to the $1,100B/year we spend on defense, it seems like we could make some pretty small adjustments there and have some pretty huge impacts. The mortgage credit, for instance, disproportionately goes to wealthy people and is costing us ~$10B a year. Rework that to be less regressive and actually focus on developing housing and you've have made a huge impact on HUD's bottom line.
- onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
  People can and do and are willing to pay for their own housing. The same is not true for defense. I hate the defense budget as much as anyone, but we should not socialize housing. Every seen what the Soviets built? No one wants to live in that.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    Public housing doesn't need to be brutalist or massive projects. In fact, projects and tenements come with much larger maintenance costs. Read up on Red Vienna, social housing in Paris/Belgium, and some of the successful scattered site and suburban public housing efforts in the US.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
      Are the higher maintenance costs of projects offset by the lower costs of all other services -- additional roads, land, sewer pipes, telephone poles, electrical lines, etc? My understanding is that projects are overall very efficient. I'm aware that they cost more per unit than a rural home in the middle of nowhere, both up-front and on-going. But a rural home in the middle of nowhere costs a fortune in services paid for with taxes, on-going.
      - Pfhreak 7y ago
        Rural country home and urban project aren't the only options. Buying/building townhouses or duplexes, four story apartment buildings, etc. You can build in denser areas and still not have to maintain a building like a tenement.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  Oh, I didn't mean "how are we going to pay for this", I meant "who's going to be paying for this", and your answer is apparently "everyone with money, by way of government". That's not exactly charity and coops anymore. The only reason to favor government construction over private construction is that it'll be subsidized for the poor, unless you somehow think the government will be better at building apartments than a private developer. (Whether that be a coop, charity or for-profit, they all have incentives to make things actually work while not breaking the bank - the government generally doesn't)

Pfhreak 7y ago

> Where's the money for that going to come from? Us. If we think housing people is important. Increasing taxes, reducing spending on other areas, etc. It's interesting to me that people seem to always ask, "How are we going to pay for this?" when HUD's entire budget is ~$60B/year. Compared to the $1,100B/year we spend on defense, it seems like we could make some pretty small adjustments there and have some pretty huge impacts. The mortgage credit, for instance, disproportionately goes to wealthy people and is costing us ~$10B a year. Rework that to be less regressive and actually focus on developing housing and you've have made a huge impact on HUD's bottom line.

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
People can and do and are willing to pay for their own housing. The same is not true for defense. I hate the defense budget as much as anyone, but we should not socialize housing. Every seen what the Soviets built? No one wants to live in that.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Public housing doesn't need to be brutalist or massive projects. In fact, projects and tenements come with much larger maintenance costs. Read up on Red Vienna, social housing in Paris/Belgium, and some of the successful scattered site and suburban public housing efforts in the US.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
    Are the higher maintenance costs of projects offset by the lower costs of all other services -- additional roads, land, sewer pipes, telephone poles, electrical lines, etc? My understanding is that projects are overall very efficient. I'm aware that they cost more per unit than a rural home in the middle of nowhere, both up-front and on-going. But a rural home in the middle of nowhere costs a fortune in services paid for with taxes, on-going.
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      Rural country home and urban project aren't the only options. Buying/building townhouses or duplexes, four story apartment buildings, etc. You can build in denser areas and still not have to maintain a building like a tenement.
DuskStar 7y ago
Oh, I didn't mean "how are we going to pay for this", I meant "who's going to be paying for this", and your answer is apparently "everyone with money, by way of government". That's not exactly charity and coops anymore. The only reason to favor government construction over private construction is that it'll be subsidized for the poor, unless you somehow think the government will be better at building apartments than a private developer. (Whether that be a coop, charity or for-profit, they all have incentives to make things actually work while not breaking the bank - the government generally doesn't)