4 ms·

> Well yeah, I experience something which I understand to be a conscious experience, but I don't think it's real. To paraphrase, you're saying that you experie

by adwn 7y ago

> Well yeah, I experience something which I understand to be a conscious experience, but I don't think it's real. To paraphrase, you're saying that you experience an experience, but this experience isn't real, therefore you're not experiencing it. This is a contradiction, and it doesn't make sense: Consciousness is the act of experiencing something, even if this "something" is not real. For example, experiencing a drug-induced hallucination is still a real phenomenon, even if the content of the hallucination is not real. > I think my brain is sensing pain and telling me to perceive the pain in the context of "self". You're using the words "I"/"me" and "perceive". Consciousness is the "I" that "perceives". > This isn't a good argument. There's no hard evidence that there isn't an invisible elephant sat next to you right now. I have (soft) evidence that I have a consciousness. I cannot share this evidence with you, therefore it is not hard evidence – this is the as yet unsurmountable problem with consciousness. In contrast, I have neither hard nor soft evidence that there's an invisible elephant next to me. I'm sorry, I don't know how to explain this phenomenon to you. Maybe you're not conscious, and I'm figuratively trying to explain colors to a blind person. I consider it much more likely, however, that you're in denial of the evidence you have right in front of your inner eye.

kypro 7y ago
> To paraphrase, you're saying that you experience an experience, but this experience isn't real, therefore you're not experiencing it. This is a contradiction, and it doesn't make sense: Consciousness is the act of experiencing something, even if this "something" is not real. For example, experiencing a drug-induced hallucination is still a real phenomenon, even if the content of the hallucination is not real. I'm not great with words at the best of times, but I really struggle to convey my thoughts on this subject. I probably shouldn't have used the word experience here. Try this: I perceive something which I understand to be a conscious experience, but I don't think it's real. I think a computer with a webcam perceives, or "experiences" something in some sense of the word. I think the only difference is that humans experience these things through a concept of a self. > I have (soft) evidence that I have a consciousness. I cannot share this evidence with you, therefore it is not hard evidence – this is the as yet unsurmountable problem with consciousness. I'd say you have an intuitive conception which you're claiming is evidence. And I get why you think that because I think I'm conscious too. As I type these words and look at my monitor now I too have this experience of a me, or an I, perceiving and doing something. Perhaps what you're asking is why this experience that I'm describing exists rather than nothing? And I think the simple answer to that is that if you perceived the world as if you were unconscious then you would perceive others and yourself as morally insignificant. Your brain kind of has to say: Hey! Look at these things you're sensing, thinking and doing! That's you. And what's more there are others like you that can also experience hurt and other emotions. If your brain doesn't say that you might as well kill yourself because pain and happiness are just boolean variables and not really manifestable experiences. Or in my opinion, illusions.

by adwn 7y ago

kypro 7y ago

> To paraphrase, you're saying that you experience an experience, but this experience isn't real, therefore you're not experiencing it. This is a contradiction, and it doesn't make sense: Consciousness is the act of experiencing something, even if this "something" is not real. For example, experiencing a drug-induced hallucination is still a real phenomenon, even if the content of the hallucination is not real. I'm not great with words at the best of times, but I really struggle to convey my thoughts on this subject. I probably shouldn't have used the word experience here. Try this: I perceive something which I understand to be a conscious experience, but I don't think it's real. I think a computer with a webcam perceives, or "experiences" something in some sense of the word. I think the only difference is that humans experience these things through a concept of a self. > I have (soft) evidence that I have a consciousness. I cannot share this evidence with you, therefore it is not hard evidence – this is the as yet unsurmountable problem with consciousness. I'd say you have an intuitive conception which you're claiming is evidence. And I get why you think that because I think I'm conscious too. As I type these words and look at my monitor now I too have this experience of a me, or an I, perceiving and doing something. Perhaps what you're asking is why this experience that I'm describing exists rather than nothing? And I think the simple answer to that is that if you perceived the world as if you were unconscious then you would perceive others and yourself as morally insignificant. Your brain kind of has to say: Hey! Look at these things you're sensing, thinking and doing! That's you. And what's more there are others like you that can also experience hurt and other emotions. If your brain doesn't say that you might as well kill yourself because pain and happiness are just boolean variables and not really manifestable experiences. Or in my opinion, illusions.