6 ms·

Reminds me of an op-ed from 1900 about how books were destroying the youth, for they never looked up at the world around them. :)

Aaronstotle 7y ago
I think that the major difference is a lot of games/apps are tailor made to produce dopamine/cause addiction. While a good book _can_ be addicting, it's not inherently stimulating.
- navs 7y ago
  At the time the medium didn't allow for unlockable episodes/chapters ;)
  - troutwine 7y ago
    Serialized novels did.
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      And nowadays we have web novels with chapters every day/every few days.
      - snaky 7y ago
        And forums where readers still communicate with authors shaping the new chapters. > This essay will focus on two particularly striking mid-nineteenth-century examples of the complex relationships that unite the writer, readers, and editor of a serial. The first one is a French novel. Les Mystères de Paris, by Eugène Sue, which was serialized over a year and a half in 1842-43 in the Paris daily Le Journal des Débats Politiques et Littéraires, which translates literally as the Journal of Political and Literary Debates; the second is Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriet Beecher Stowe, which first appeared in the antisîavery weekly, the National Era, between 1851 and 1852. > My first point is that in the case of both works, apart from the fact that they aimed at social reform and were tremendously popular and violently criticized, their respective readers played a role in giving final form to each novel, particularly in terms of length. I will then examine the locus of the discussion that is being carried on between the readers and the writer. In Stowe's case, since she was writing far from Washington, where the National Era was based, the conversation between the reader and the writer was carried on in the columns of the Era itself. In Sue's case, the correspondence between reader and writer was mostly conducted via private letters, for reasons I will go into later. Sue kept more than three hvmdred of the letters he received while writing Les Mystères; those letters have now been edited and published. As can be imagined, they provide a rare and invaluable insight into the interaction between reader and writer during the publication of a serial. http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44539534.pdf http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44539534.pdf
- anchpop 7y ago
  Why would a book not be made to produce dopamine? They're written by people trying to make the most engaging and profitable story possible
  - p1necone 7y ago
    I've certainly become "addicted" to good books in the same way I've been "addicted" to good video games - reading for 8hrs straight every day until I'm done and so on. From the way some people talk about video games on here sometimes I assume they think the android/ios market is representative of all of gaming (even then there's plenty of good "buy once" mobile games without microtransactions, the discoverability on the stores is just godawful - presumably to steer people towards more profitable crap rather than what's actually good).
  - GVIrish 7y ago
    A good book might hook someone into reading it all in a binge, but once it's done it's pretty much done. A game on the other hand can create a sort of rewards treadmill where no one ever really 'finishes'. A book can't adjust rewards in real time to fuel addictive behavior. Books don't really exploit gambling mechanics, which is what can drive some of the most pernicious addictions.
    - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
      Yep, people sink literally thousands of hours in to a single game. Some popular games literally punish you for the time you spend not playing the game or give you daily rewards so that you log in frequently.
      - p1necone 7y ago
        The op was specifically talking about minecraft - it has none of those dark patterns, it's just a good game. It's literally virtual building blocks (+ hack and slash combat and crafting and exploration etc). Would you have the same level of derision for kids who sink thousands of hours into playing with lego? Kids have a lot of spare time to kill.
- p1necone 7y ago
  The medium of video games isn't "inherently stimulating" either. Games need to be specifically tailored to that kind of thing, and many aren't (look outside of the mobile space for examples - 99% of what you see on the steam front page is not a skinner box)
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Also, you always eventually reach the end of a book. In which case you have to take a break to find a new one, which you may or may not like as much. This applies to basically every form of media prior to the internet—movies, TV shows, music albums, etc. I personally prefer games that are one-and-done too, and this is partly why. I want to immerse myself in a virtual world for a little while and then move on with my life and/or find a brand new virtual world; I'm not looking for an endless rabbit hole.

Aaronstotle 7y ago

I think that the major difference is a lot of games/apps are tailor made to produce dopamine/cause addiction. While a good book _can_ be addicting, it's not inherently stimulating.

navs 7y ago
At the time the medium didn't allow for unlockable episodes/chapters ;)
- troutwine 7y ago
  Serialized novels did.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    And nowadays we have web novels with chapters every day/every few days.
    - snaky 7y ago
      And forums where readers still communicate with authors shaping the new chapters. > This essay will focus on two particularly striking mid-nineteenth-century examples of the complex relationships that unite the writer, readers, and editor of a serial. The first one is a French novel. Les Mystères de Paris, by Eugène Sue, which was serialized over a year and a half in 1842-43 in the Paris daily Le Journal des Débats Politiques et Littéraires, which translates literally as the Journal of Political and Literary Debates; the second is Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriet Beecher Stowe, which first appeared in the antisîavery weekly, the National Era, between 1851 and 1852. > My first point is that in the case of both works, apart from the fact that they aimed at social reform and were tremendously popular and violently criticized, their respective readers played a role in giving final form to each novel, particularly in terms of length. I will then examine the locus of the discussion that is being carried on between the readers and the writer. In Stowe's case, since she was writing far from Washington, where the National Era was based, the conversation between the reader and the writer was carried on in the columns of the Era itself. In Sue's case, the correspondence between reader and writer was mostly conducted via private letters, for reasons I will go into later. Sue kept more than three hvmdred of the letters he received while writing Les Mystères; those letters have now been edited and published. As can be imagined, they provide a rare and invaluable insight into the interaction between reader and writer during the publication of a serial. http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44539534.pdf http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44539534.pdf
anchpop 7y ago
Why would a book not be made to produce dopamine? They're written by people trying to make the most engaging and profitable story possible
- p1necone 7y ago
  I've certainly become "addicted" to good books in the same way I've been "addicted" to good video games - reading for 8hrs straight every day until I'm done and so on. From the way some people talk about video games on here sometimes I assume they think the android/ios market is representative of all of gaming (even then there's plenty of good "buy once" mobile games without microtransactions, the discoverability on the stores is just godawful - presumably to steer people towards more profitable crap rather than what's actually good).
- GVIrish 7y ago
  A good book might hook someone into reading it all in a binge, but once it's done it's pretty much done. A game on the other hand can create a sort of rewards treadmill where no one ever really 'finishes'. A book can't adjust rewards in real time to fuel addictive behavior. Books don't really exploit gambling mechanics, which is what can drive some of the most pernicious addictions.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    Yep, people sink literally thousands of hours in to a single game. Some popular games literally punish you for the time you spend not playing the game or give you daily rewards so that you log in frequently.
    - p1necone 7y ago
      The op was specifically talking about minecraft - it has none of those dark patterns, it's just a good game. It's literally virtual building blocks (+ hack and slash combat and crafting and exploration etc). Would you have the same level of derision for kids who sink thousands of hours into playing with lego? Kids have a lot of spare time to kill.
p1necone 7y ago
The medium of video games isn't "inherently stimulating" either. Games need to be specifically tailored to that kind of thing, and many aren't (look outside of the mobile space for examples - 99% of what you see on the steam front page is not a skinner box)
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Also, you always eventually reach the end of a book. In which case you have to take a break to find a new one, which you may or may not like as much. This applies to basically every form of media prior to the internet—movies, TV shows, music albums, etc. I personally prefer games that are one-and-done too, and this is partly why. I want to immerse myself in a virtual world for a little while and then move on with my life and/or find a brand new virtual world; I'm not looking for an endless rabbit hole.