8 ms·
I thought much the same but recent experiences with my cousin's children give me doubt. They're both in the early teens now and they consume games like Minecraf
by navs 7y ago
I thought much the same but recent experiences with my cousin's children give me doubt. They're both in the early teens now and they consume games like Minecraft on their iPad as if they were playing on a standard PC.
I know the games have been tweaked for the format but not by much, at least in the instance of Minecraft.
The virtual controls infuriate me but they're tapping and swiping away building some complex creations. They do this in the middle of a family social, necks bent, staring down at the screen. The only time they look away is when the iPad runs out of juice.
- Darkphibre 7y agoReminds me of an op-ed from 1900 about how books were destroying the youth, for they never looked up at the world around them. :)
- Aaronstotle 7y agoI think that the major difference is a lot of games/apps are tailor made to produce dopamine/cause addiction. While a good book _can_ be addicting, it's not inherently stimulating.
- navs 7y agoAt the time the medium didn't allow for unlockable episodes/chapters ;)
- troutwine 7y agoSerialized novels did.
- Mirioron 7y agoAnd nowadays we have web novels with chapters every day/every few days.
- snaky 7y agoAnd forums where readers still communicate with authors shaping the new chapters. > This essay will focus on two particularly striking mid-nineteenth-century examples of the complex relationships that unite the writer, readers, and editor of a serial. The first one is a French novel. Les Mystères de Paris, by Eugène Sue, which was serialized over a year and a half in 1842-43 in the Paris daily Le Journal des Débats Politiques et Littéraires, which translates literally as the Journal of Political and Literary Debates; the second is Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriet Beecher Stowe, which first appeared in the antisîavery weekly, the National Era, between 1851 and 1852. > My first point is that in the case of both works, apart from the fact that they aimed at social reform and were tremendously popular and violently criticized, their respective readers played a role in giving final form to each novel, particularly in terms of length. I will then examine the locus of the discussion that is being carried on between the readers and the writer. In Stowe's case, since she was writing far from Washington, where the National Era was based, the conversation between the reader and the writer was carried on in the columns of the Era itself. In Sue's case, the correspondence between reader and writer was mostly conducted via private letters, for reasons I will go into later. Sue kept more than three hvmdred of the letters he received while writing Les Mystères; those letters have now been edited and published. As can be imagined, they provide a rare and invaluable insight into the interaction between reader and writer during the publication of a serial. http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44539534.pdf http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44539534.pdf
- anchpop 7y agoWhy would a book not be made to produce dopamine? They're written by people trying to make the most engaging and profitable story possible
- p1necone 7y agoI've certainly become "addicted" to good books in the same way I've been "addicted" to good video games - reading for 8hrs straight every day until I'm done and so on. From the way some people talk about video games on here sometimes I assume they think the android/ios market is representative of all of gaming (even then there's plenty of good "buy once" mobile games without microtransactions, the discoverability on the stores is just godawful - presumably to steer people towards more profitable crap rather than what's actually good).
- GVIrish 7y agoA good book might hook someone into reading it all in a binge, but once it's done it's pretty much done. A game on the other hand can create a sort of rewards treadmill where no one ever really 'finishes'. A book can't adjust rewards in real time to fuel addictive behavior. Books don't really exploit gambling mechanics, which is what can drive some of the most pernicious addictions.
- Polylactic_acid 7y agoYep, people sink literally thousands of hours in to a single game. Some popular games literally punish you for the time you spend not playing the game or give you daily rewards so that you log in frequently.
- p1necone 7y agoThe op was specifically talking about minecraft - it has none of those dark patterns, it's just a good game. It's literally virtual building blocks (+ hack and slash combat and crafting and exploration etc). Would you have the same level of derision for kids who sink thousands of hours into playing with lego? Kids have a lot of spare time to kill.
- p1necone 7y agoThe medium of video games isn't "inherently stimulating" either. Games need to be specifically tailored to that kind of thing, and many aren't (look outside of the mobile space for examples - 99% of what you see on the steam front page is not a skinner box)
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoAlso, you always eventually reach the end of a book. In which case you have to take a break to find a new one, which you may or may not like as much. This applies to basically every form of media prior to the internet—movies, TV shows, music albums, etc. I personally prefer games that are one-and-done too, and this is partly why. I want to immerse myself in a virtual world for a little while and then move on with my life and/or find a brand new virtual world; I'm not looking for an endless rabbit hole.
- Nextgrid 7y agoMaybe it's because they haven't tried any better and so don't know how the constrained controls are limiting their gameplay? I see a lot of this in other fields. People will use a sub-standard workflow and think it's fine until they experience something better and at that point they realise how bad their previous workflow was.
- tachyonbeam 7y agoThat's probably true, but I think most people don't have desktop computers anymore. Most people buy laptops instead, and they don't use a mouse. Hence, most kids growing up won't really interact with desktop computers and mice anymore, and won't really get to see how different the experience could be. Not unless they happen to be at a friend's house, and that friend has a desktop computer with a mouse.
- Nextgrid 7y agoEven a console-style controller would be a huge upgrade from a touchscreen and those are still very common.
- Mirioron 7y agoThe main thing with a touchscreen is that it's probably not as long term solution for input for these fast paced games. The way you grip your phone is probably going to hurt your wrists more in the long run.
- Kiro 7y agoYou're making a lot of assumptions about touch controls. They work much better than you think for people who has grown up with mobile only.
- fwsgonzo 7y agoI honestly can't see it. Sure the kids may be fast at swiping, but ... it takes milliseconds for a professional with a mouse to already have aimed and shot against the head of an enemy player. There is a reason why pros who play with controllers never play against pros on PC in shooters. And I can easily imagine the controller pros will be much faster than swipers. So, for just building with blocks, I can see why parents just give the kids an ipad so they don't have all the running and screaming, but it probably won't be a competitive way of playing games. I only say probably because I just can't imagine me watching someone swiping on a screen.
- TylerE 7y agoMakes me wonder what kind of spine and RSI issues that generation will have in 20 years
- mffnbs 7y agoHow's it different from a generation that grew up with books?
- arcticfox 7y agoBooks are way less addictive across the board in my experience. You might find a handful of people consuming them to the point of harm, but when you add together all of the addictive activities on a phone/tablet there's no question IMO
- TylerE 7y agoBooks you aren't repeatedly stabbing with a finger.
- _jal 7y agoDepends on how much you argue with the authors.
- Mirioron 7y agoI recommend you take a look at the way kids hold their phones when doing "serious" fast-paced gaming. The 4 finger claw grip[0] is not very comfortable in the long term. I'm guessing it'll be fine for teenagers, but beyond that I could see it causing issues. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKrU4yYTGXI&t=4m51s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKrU4yYTGXI&t=4m51s