7 ms·
This is a long time coming: for more context, Hipmunk was acquired by Concur back in 2016 for $58MM [1] as the flights meta-search business was just getting tou
by phsource 7y ago
This is a long time coming: for more context, Hipmunk was acquired by Concur back in 2016 for $58MM [1] as the flights meta-search business was just getting tougher and tougher
As someone who's dabbled in flights bookings (BookWithMatrix) and now am working on a travel startup (Wanderlog, https://wanderlog.com https://wanderlog.com, a Google Docs/Trips for travel planning), flights are just not that profitable. In North America, you'd be lucky to get 1-2% commissions. In the rest of the world, it's a bit better, but Hipmunk was definitely North America-first.
Concur never was a consumer company and Hipmunk never was going to make a ton for them, so it was just a matter of time. RIP -- a lot of their best features (not just showing the cheapest flights, but the "Best" based on agony) have made it into all major meta-search tools, so it's not for nothing!
(Also, I personally use a combination of ITA Matrix, Google Flights, and Skyscanner now. ITA Matrix still has time bars, if you loved that UI; Google Flights is just so fast, and Skyscanner searches low-cost carriers that Google Flights sometimes misses)
[1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/hipmunk https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/hipmunk
- jedberg 7y ago> have made it into all major meta-search tools, so it's not for nothing! Since I only use Hipmunk, which alternative would you say has the most comparable to the "agony" sort?
- phsource 7y agoThe interesting thing is the "Agony" sort has almost become standard! Skyscanner, Momondo, and others all default to a "Best" sort that takes into account flight length and prices. Google Flights also does this for the first few results it returns, before returning a bunch of flights in price sort order.
- nathancahill 7y agoOh no kidding, you're BookWithMatrix? Shooting you an email, your website has been life-changing.
- aorth 7y agoI second that! Came here specifically to see if anyone mentioned BookWithMatrix. So cool. :)
- jalopy 7y agoJust took a quick look at Wanderlog and it looks awesome - exactly what I want out of a trip planning tool. Great job!
- system16 7y agoWanderlog looks very cool, but you might want to take a look at how you’re pulling your header images. Planning a trip to Vietnam and got welcomed a B/W header image of the Vietnam War :/
- phsource 7y agoSorry about that! We just fixed it -- if you create it again, hopefully you get a non-Vietnam War picture
- sdoering 7y agoWow. Fixed within 12 minutes from notification in an online forum to production. I am impressed.
- bartkappenburg 7y agoSSH'ed info the production server, pico index.php, saved file, done.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- no_wizard 7y agoI do have a question: How’s PHP holding up in 2020? Are you using a big framework? Are you using it because it’s what you’ve always known or did you choose it deliberately over other options? I’m genuinely curious. Not meant to be negative. I’ve always wondered how well PHP scaled for others.
- dorian-graph 7y agoKeep your eye on duffel.com. ;)
- JoshTriplett 7y agoWhat alternatives exist to Hipmunk's display of flights? I've never seen a site with a similar display of flights by time, including display of the layovers, and easy ways to drag the earliest and latest start times to eliminate flights that aren't an option. > ITA Matrix still has time bars, if you loved that UI ITA Matrix doesn't seem to do anything like Hipmunk's UI. > flights are just not that profitable. In North America, you'd be lucky to get 1-2% commissions. In the rest of the world, it's a bit better, but Hipmunk was definitely North America-first. Why is that not enough? Does 1-2% not cover the (hopefully minimal) costs of performing such searches and calculations?
- amenghra 7y agohttp://www.ai.mit.edu/courses/6.034f/psets/ps1/airtravel.pdf http://www.ai.mit.edu/courses/6.034f/psets/ps1/airtravel.pdf might help you understand why it's not a trivial problem (I'm not saying 1-2% commission should or shouldn't cover the costs, just pointing out what goes into these engines).
- saurik 7y agoAnd yet, there are a bunch of services that offer flight search (whether or not it is profitable), none of which (that I know of) with a UI (as this is just a UI issue) as good as Hipmunk :(.
- dmix 7y agoThis is mostly just a marketing thing, balancing the lead returns for flights with the companies ability to rank/sell ads on Google/elsewhere. I'm sure the margins are low but given the competition you need high volume to really win and it's a highly competitive and fragmented space. The UI alone is only part of the business model.
- ng7j5d9 7y agoThanks for posting that link! I came across that presentation several years back and found it quite enlightening. Then I thought of it for some reason a few months ago and tried Googling for it but couldn't find it. Very glad to stumble upon it again, and this time I'll definitely bookmark it.
- ufmace 7y agoI almost think I want a new kind of search these days, for which flights are actually cheapest, not just on ticket face price. I want to know if I have to pay $30 each way to check a bag, or try to pack something that will fit in overhead, not trigger a TSA panic, and then struggle past everyone else's delays in security and boarding because they wanted to save $30 and are trying to carry on a bag they can barely lift over their head. I want to know if they have created some "special class" that you have to pay $50 to be in, or wait twice as long at poorly staffed "regular" desks. I want to know if they're skipping included meals on longer flights in favor of charging inflated prices. I want to know if they're charging more for more desirable seats, both in location and comfort. I want to know if they paywalled any other things that used to be standard.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoYou can go ahead and answer yes to all of those for any US airline and probably many non US airline, except maybe Singapore and the other top tier ones. But I assume that won’t be for long either.
- ufmace 7y agoIt's sadly true for most. I have noticed that Southwest is a notable outlier in all this - they don't do any of that stuff. They also don't seem to register their flights on most of the search sites. It's like they know that those customers choose based on raw price alone, no room to sell any other differences. I make it a point to search their company site first before trying any other flight search.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoOn southwest you have to buy priority boarding or whatever it’s called if you want to sit next to a specific person, otherwise you will end up filling individual middle seats. It’s all one and the same to me, they all have to meet their revenue targets.
- 7y ago
- ryantuck 7y agoWow, wanderlog seems very cool! Way more intuitive than my custom google map / sheets that I've set up for a two week honeymoon around the corner. Will give it a whirl!
- dmix 7y agoCan someone explain to me what Concur does? I'm guessing it handles a bunch of the travel stuff for bigcos with lots of travelling sales people?
- peterwwillis 7y agoYep, corporate flight/travel booking for entire orgs. The Department of Defense uses it for its travel system, too.
- dundercoder 7y agoI used it for trip planning and expenses when I worked at a BigCo. It reminded me a lot of Amex travel.
- filmgirlcw 7y agoYeah, Amex Travel is a reseller. I’m not sure if the backend the Amex Travel people see is the same as what we see as end users or if they have a different interface, but at my company, I call a number for Amex travel and speak to someone there, even for bookings made using Concur.
- olooney 7y agoBook travel and accommodations and track expense reports, with a focus on approval and compliance.
- crusso 7y agoMy company uses it for booking of flights, hotels, rental cars -- as well as for processing of the expense reports afterward.
- mynegation 7y agoBooking travel, getting group discounts, and expense management. Oh, the expense management... - royal pain in the butt.
- jungturk 7y agoDefinitely focused on the business customer, mostly around travel planning and expense mgmt. https://www.concur.com/en-us/all-products-page https://www.concur.com/en-us/all-products-page
- mFixman 7y agoWhy is it that Hipmunk had the best travel search interface I've used while SAP Concur's is absolute rubbish? What did they gain from the acquisition other than stopping a minor competitor?
- thebiglebrewski 7y agoHey I'd love to use your thing if you gave a way to export it as a Google Doc so I know I'd still have it if your service shutdown :)
- mbesto 7y ago> flights are just not that profitable. Trivago, Kayak, etc would say otherwise. Yes margins are slim, but this is a classic case of why no UI/UX will ever trump mass distribution. OTAs are basically the walmart of the digital world.
- mike_d 7y ago> Trivago, Kayak, etc would say otherwise. Trivago is in the hotel business, which has better margins. Some sites like Expedia will actually take a loss on a flight if you book it with a hotel or rental car, which they make a profit on. Kayak (and the rest of the Priceline/Booking.com group) takes a much more advertising driven model. You'll notice the site has lots of pushes to sign you up for their various mailing lists that yield long term reoccurring revenue on airline credit cards and travel packages.
- cutenewt 7y agoIt's odd to see so many commenters insist that there's money to be made in flight search, despite not having industry experience. This comment nail it dead-on. Flights are a loss leader. It's the gateway to more profitable travel services like booking hotels, which ironically have shrinking margins over the last few years. There's no need for an OTA middleman when a hotel can build a direct relationship with the customer (via loyalty programs).
- chx 7y agoThanks for BWM! > I personally use a combination of ITA Matrix, Google Flights, and Skyscanner now May I recommend http://azair.eu/ http://azair.eu/ for low cost searches in EU? The UI is a bit weird when doing a one way as the label on the date pickers do not change but the meaning does, one is the earliest departure the other is the latest departure instead of return latest.
- vmlinuz 7y agoHuh, Wanderlog looks a hell of a lot like what I've been playing with for the past few weeks, after unexpectedly gaining much free time just before Christmas, and failing to find something similar for my own use! I'd definitely be dropping you a line if a) I was anywhere near North America and b) a Javascript guy...