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This always felt like a dead-end market to me. Many cities offer bike shares (which often run at a loss) and many of those are starting to offer battery-powered

This always felt like a dead-end market to me. Many cities offer bike shares (which often run at a loss) and many of those are starting to offer battery-powered bikes for an additional fee. Anywhere scooters are useful, they quickly become a nuisance and regulations are imposed. It's kind of a no-win situation for commercial operators. It feels like the market opportunity here isn't on the branding side, but the operations side as a white-label operator for city bike shares. As Uber is largely a brand play, I can see why they might want to go in a different direction.

dman 7y ago
Also weather. How can you be a viable business if you have no cashflow for 4-5 months in a year?
- aeturnum 7y ago
  There are many, many seasonal businesses. Ski resorts, for instance.
  - dx87 7y ago
    Those basically get run by a skeleton crew during the off season. My dad lived in a town in Alaska that had skiing and hiking tourism as its primary money maker, and he said that during the off season, it becomes a ghost town with only things like grocery/convenience stores and gast stations being the only places that stay running.
  - netsharc 7y ago
    "Hello China, can you make me a e-scooter-ski-sled hybrid?"
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    A lot of the ski resorts I've been to have mountain biking, golf, and other sports in the off-season, as well as basically doing no maintenance and costing very little money to run outside of the winter months.
- ses1984 7y ago
  Gee, I don't know, ask any other seasonal business how they do it.
- viscanti 7y ago
  I noticed a lot of people using scooters and bikes when I visited Venice Beach in December. There appear to be markets where they're used year round.
- jayd16 7y ago
  If you're Uber, you have other transportation products to offset that in the winter months.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  4-5 months is a bit of an exaggeration in most coastal areas of the US. where I live it still isn't super cold and there are still people out using scooters. the range does suffer a bit at these temperatures, but not enough to make them totally unviable.
- Pxtl 7y ago
  I'm in Canada. I biked to work today. I didn't see a single crumb of snow anywhere.
goobynight 7y ago
The nuisance -> regulation flow is precisely why I became an early adopter and dropped ~$2500 on a fast one . I wanted to have my fun before the hordes ruin it. If everyone had a scooter that could go over 35mph, it would be chaos. To those that enjoy hooligan style fun, the time to get an electric scooter is now, before the laws catch up to the reality and make e-kick scooters just another point a to b experience. That said, have the hooligan fun in a way that doesn't accelerate the adoption of laws.
- schwartzworld 7y ago
  Can you recommend a scooter? I'm 6'6" and 260lbs, so I'd want a quality one.
  - goobynight 7y ago
    You 100% want something with dual motors. Look at the full lineup offered by Dualtron, if you'd like top of the line. I chose the Dualtron Spider, as it was made to be only 44lb while able to go 38mph, do wheelies, has full suspension for the skate park and so on. If you are willing to deal with more weight, there are other Dualtron options that are probably built a bit better (44lb was a hard limit for legality in Singapore), but the spider is still an amazing machine. Browsing the electric scooters subreddit is also useful. They link out to this sheet: https://electric-scooter.guide/comparisons/compare-electric-scooters/ https://electric-scooter.guide/comparisons/compare-electric-... Edit: you are actually too heavy for a Dualtron spider, which is specced for 220lb.
  - jsight 7y ago
    Check out ewheels.com. There are lots of interesting options available.
    - goobynight 7y ago
      I bought from ehweels and Jason is awesome. They honored the 1 year warranty on my Dualtron Spider.
- 7y ago
tempsy 7y ago
Being dockless sounds like a really simple difference but makes a huge difference for me. There's a low level anxiety to using docked bikes because you have to do the work to figure out if you can even dock somewhere close to where you're going. And if there isn't one then you have to worry about the ticking clock costing you more money every second you don't dock it.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  Dockless is the problem in dense urban areas; they clog walkways and lead to a lot of discarded scooters around the places that have the least space for them. The docks are basically the city setting aside a piece of land (usually just 1 parking spot worth) dedicated to bikes. A single square foot of urban sidewalk space is incredibly valuable, so IMO it's better to be intentional about how it gets used.
  - zapita 7y ago
    If we're concerned about using up municipal land for vehicle storage, shouldn't we first address the enormous amount of street space permanently reserved for car storage?
    - wayoutthere 7y ago
      Not disagreeing with you at all, but it's a politically sticky issue to change the status quo on. Many cities are starting to do away with it in dense areas though.
    - thatfrenchguy 7y ago
      In most european countries, you pay for parking in cities though
    - gruez 7y ago
      >the enormous amount of street space permanently reserved for car storage? This comparison always gets made, but at least car parking is done is officially sanctioned places, as opposed to dockerless bikes where they're dumped wherever.
leetcrew 7y ago
I think there will still be some niches where scooters make sense. I live in an area adjacent to downtown but not extremely dense (mostly 3-4 story rowhouses). traffic moves slowly because the streets are very narrow and there's never quite enough people on scooters to clog anything. I find scooters are great for going out to pickup takeout. there's also a nice walk I like to take along the waterfront. I usually take a scooter to the beginning of the path (about ten minutes), then walk back in the direction of my apartment. I also live in a rather large building, so there's always a couple scooters sitting by the entrance. once you actually get into downtown there are just too many people for scooters to work well.
- goobynight 7y ago
  I'll opt to ride in the street more often in a downtown area, since traffic is typically slow anyways. At minimum, I'll try to hit up the bike lane. It does help that my scooter can accelerate up to 20-30mph easily though.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    that makes sense. I prefer renting for various reasons. unfortunately this means I ride scooters with an (optimistic) top speed of 15 mph. no way I'm going to try and ride on a four-lane, 30 mph road on one of those things.
- usrusr 7y ago
  > I find scooters are great for going out to pickup takeout. Bikes (electric if you insist) would still win though, because in a pinch they can easily be operated with one hand holding stuff. Hand + ass gives noticeably less control than hand + hand + ass, but still much better than hand + hand sans ass. Simple physics actually, the contact points are farther apart and positioned better relative to the center of mass. And with all the luggability advantage of nonelectric scooters relative to bikes lost to weight, the only remaining advantage of electric scooters is packing density. Admittedly am extremely valuable advantage when it comes to the logistics of electric dockless. (Re-reading what I wrote I wonder if I'm involuntarily advocating for a skateboard as your vehicle for the takeout run)

dman 7y ago

Also weather. How can you be a viable business if you have no cashflow for 4-5 months in a year?

aeturnum 7y ago
There are many, many seasonal businesses. Ski resorts, for instance.
- dx87 7y ago
  Those basically get run by a skeleton crew during the off season. My dad lived in a town in Alaska that had skiing and hiking tourism as its primary money maker, and he said that during the off season, it becomes a ghost town with only things like grocery/convenience stores and gast stations being the only places that stay running.
- netsharc 7y ago
  "Hello China, can you make me a e-scooter-ski-sled hybrid?"
- Konnstann 7y ago
  A lot of the ski resorts I've been to have mountain biking, golf, and other sports in the off-season, as well as basically doing no maintenance and costing very little money to run outside of the winter months.
ses1984 7y ago
Gee, I don't know, ask any other seasonal business how they do it.
viscanti 7y ago
I noticed a lot of people using scooters and bikes when I visited Venice Beach in December. There appear to be markets where they're used year round.
jayd16 7y ago
If you're Uber, you have other transportation products to offset that in the winter months.
leetcrew 7y ago
4-5 months is a bit of an exaggeration in most coastal areas of the US. where I live it still isn't super cold and there are still people out using scooters. the range does suffer a bit at these temperatures, but not enough to make them totally unviable.
Pxtl 7y ago
I'm in Canada. I biked to work today. I didn't see a single crumb of snow anywhere.

goobynight 7y ago

The nuisance -> regulation flow is precisely why I became an early adopter and dropped ~$2500 on a fast one . I wanted to have my fun before the hordes ruin it. If everyone had a scooter that could go over 35mph, it would be chaos. To those that enjoy hooligan style fun, the time to get an electric scooter is now, before the laws catch up to the reality and make e-kick scooters just another point a to b experience. That said, have the hooligan fun in a way that doesn't accelerate the adoption of laws.

schwartzworld 7y ago
Can you recommend a scooter? I'm 6'6" and 260lbs, so I'd want a quality one.
- goobynight 7y ago
  You 100% want something with dual motors. Look at the full lineup offered by Dualtron, if you'd like top of the line. I chose the Dualtron Spider, as it was made to be only 44lb while able to go 38mph, do wheelies, has full suspension for the skate park and so on. If you are willing to deal with more weight, there are other Dualtron options that are probably built a bit better (44lb was a hard limit for legality in Singapore), but the spider is still an amazing machine. Browsing the electric scooters subreddit is also useful. They link out to this sheet: https://electric-scooter.guide/comparisons/compare-electric-scooters/ https://electric-scooter.guide/comparisons/compare-electric-... Edit: you are actually too heavy for a Dualtron spider, which is specced for 220lb.
- jsight 7y ago
  Check out ewheels.com. There are lots of interesting options available.
  - goobynight 7y ago
    I bought from ehweels and Jason is awesome. They honored the 1 year warranty on my Dualtron Spider.
7y ago

tempsy 7y ago

Being dockless sounds like a really simple difference but makes a huge difference for me. There's a low level anxiety to using docked bikes because you have to do the work to figure out if you can even dock somewhere close to where you're going. And if there isn't one then you have to worry about the ticking clock costing you more money every second you don't dock it.

wayoutthere 7y ago
Dockless is the problem in dense urban areas; they clog walkways and lead to a lot of discarded scooters around the places that have the least space for them. The docks are basically the city setting aside a piece of land (usually just 1 parking spot worth) dedicated to bikes. A single square foot of urban sidewalk space is incredibly valuable, so IMO it's better to be intentional about how it gets used.
- zapita 7y ago
  If we're concerned about using up municipal land for vehicle storage, shouldn't we first address the enormous amount of street space permanently reserved for car storage?
  - wayoutthere 7y ago
    Not disagreeing with you at all, but it's a politically sticky issue to change the status quo on. Many cities are starting to do away with it in dense areas though.
  - thatfrenchguy 7y ago
    In most european countries, you pay for parking in cities though
  - gruez 7y ago
    >the enormous amount of street space permanently reserved for car storage? This comparison always gets made, but at least car parking is done is officially sanctioned places, as opposed to dockerless bikes where they're dumped wherever.

leetcrew 7y ago

I think there will still be some niches where scooters make sense. I live in an area adjacent to downtown but not extremely dense (mostly 3-4 story rowhouses). traffic moves slowly because the streets are very narrow and there's never quite enough people on scooters to clog anything. I find scooters are great for going out to pickup takeout. there's also a nice walk I like to take along the waterfront. I usually take a scooter to the beginning of the path (about ten minutes), then walk back in the direction of my apartment. I also live in a rather large building, so there's always a couple scooters sitting by the entrance. once you actually get into downtown there are just too many people for scooters to work well.

goobynight 7y ago
I'll opt to ride in the street more often in a downtown area, since traffic is typically slow anyways. At minimum, I'll try to hit up the bike lane. It does help that my scooter can accelerate up to 20-30mph easily though.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  that makes sense. I prefer renting for various reasons. unfortunately this means I ride scooters with an (optimistic) top speed of 15 mph. no way I'm going to try and ride on a four-lane, 30 mph road on one of those things.
usrusr 7y ago
> I find scooters are great for going out to pickup takeout. Bikes (electric if you insist) would still win though, because in a pinch they can easily be operated with one hand holding stuff. Hand + ass gives noticeably less control than hand + hand + ass, but still much better than hand + hand sans ass. Simple physics actually, the contact points are farther apart and positioned better relative to the center of mass. And with all the luggability advantage of nonelectric scooters relative to bikes lost to weight, the only remaining advantage of electric scooters is packing density. Admittedly am extremely valuable advantage when it comes to the logistics of electric dockless. (Re-reading what I wrote I wonder if I'm involuntarily advocating for a skateboard as your vehicle for the takeout run)