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To take it a step further, let's assume we simulate the whole universe. We figured out all the rules for interaction so that there is nothing left over or left

To take it a step further, let's assume we simulate the whole universe. We figured out all the rules for interaction so that there is nothing left over or left out of the simulation. All the rules and state are encoded. Do you think beings in this second run of the universe are conscious? Or do you think that somehow something has been left out of the simulation?

TuringTest 7y ago
How could I tell if there's consciousness in that simulated universe, when I can't tell whether other beings in this original universe are conscious?
- state_less 7y ago
  If you replicate the universe, then the properties would hold from the reference and simulation. It shouldn't matter if we use information vs. whatever the reference implementation is using. We do this sort of thing when we simulate known systems, like a computer running in software. So if there is conscious beings in the universe, it'll be in the simulation. You hold that you're conscious, so then I'd hope you'd agree the simulation has at least one conscious being in it. I don't know why some folks consciousness test only seems to work for themselves. I've been convinced by the simple argument by induction: I am an example of an animal. I have consciousness, so others likely do too.
  - TuringTest 7y ago
    Induction is not proof :-) I'm also convinced, but primarily by Turing's argument ad politeness: "Instead of arguing continually over this point it is usual to have the polite convention that everyone thinks".[1] I haven't really found a compelling rational argument to fully reject solipsism. Though I agree that looking for yourself in a perfect simulation is a clever hack. :-) [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=7pFHBAAAQBAJ&lpg=PT51&ots=rCScTqp0va&dq=turing%20conscious%20politeness&pg=PT51#v=onepage&q=turing%20conscious%20politeness&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=7pFHBAAAQBAJ&lpg=PT51&ots=...

TuringTest 7y ago

How could I tell if there's consciousness in that simulated universe, when I can't tell whether other beings in this original universe are conscious?

state_less 7y ago
If you replicate the universe, then the properties would hold from the reference and simulation. It shouldn't matter if we use information vs. whatever the reference implementation is using. We do this sort of thing when we simulate known systems, like a computer running in software. So if there is conscious beings in the universe, it'll be in the simulation. You hold that you're conscious, so then I'd hope you'd agree the simulation has at least one conscious being in it. I don't know why some folks consciousness test only seems to work for themselves. I've been convinced by the simple argument by induction: I am an example of an animal. I have consciousness, so others likely do too.
- TuringTest 7y ago
  Induction is not proof :-) I'm also convinced, but primarily by Turing's argument ad politeness: "Instead of arguing continually over this point it is usual to have the polite convention that everyone thinks".[1] I haven't really found a compelling rational argument to fully reject solipsism. Though I agree that looking for yourself in a perfect simulation is a clever hack. :-) [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=7pFHBAAAQBAJ&lpg=PT51&ots=rCScTqp0va&dq=turing%20conscious%20politeness&pg=PT51#v=onepage&q=turing%20conscious%20politeness&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=7pFHBAAAQBAJ&lpg=PT51&ots=...