4 ms·

How about doing this but also NOT providing the client hints API and NOT providing any way for JavaScript to explicitly ask for OS and browser product name and

by devit 7y ago

How about doing this but also NOT providing the client hints API and NOT providing any way for JavaScript to explicitly ask for OS and browser product name and version? While browser and JavaScript engines are likely to continue being detectable due to behavior and performance for the foreseeable future, it's probably possible to make the OS, browser frontend and exact engine version undetectable.

pteraspidomorph 7y ago
Seems to be the Firefox plan according to the text.
marcusarmstrong 7y ago
Browser vendor/version is hugely important information for triaging issues and implementing progressive enhancement approaches on large scale websites.
- tyingq 7y ago
  Perhaps, but it invalidates most of their stated reasons for doing this. Which makes the post a confusing read.
  - marcusarmstrong 7y ago
    IMO it’s explained better in the Client Hints specification.
    - HorstG 7y ago
      Client hints are not any more useful than traditional UA for privacy or progressive enhancement. Its the same content, just split up. Any browser not sending everything will have atrocious permission UX, nagging websites or just get the broken IE5 version. UA hints solve nothing, even after reading the spec
  - magicalist 7y ago
    > it invalidates most of their stated reasons The "main advantages" section for client hints all seem to apply there.
- minitech 7y ago
  Triaging issues, sure. Progressive enhancement? If you’re parsing User-Agent to implement that, you’re doing it wrong. (Feature detection is the correct approach, when necessary.)
  - nicoburns 7y ago
    There are cases like IndexedDB bugs in certain versions of Safari that are very hard to feature detect...
  - grose 7y ago
    Here's an official Google page telling you to sniff UAs or their new feature will break everything: https://www.chromium.org/updates/same-site/incompatible-clients https://www.chromium.org/updates/same-site/incompatible-clie... Edit: OK, this isn't progressive enhancement. But it's still a major problem you have to sniff the User-Agent for. I don't want to sniff UAs either but when Chrome is wont to change how fundamental parts of the web work like cookies it's sometimes necessary. I know UA hints will still allow you to do this, but requiring a second request is going to make things like redirect pages difficult to implement.
    - minitech 7y ago
      SameSite=None isn’t progressive enhancement.
      - grose 7y ago
        You're right, I should have replied elsewhere. By the way, if anyone knows what this _is_ called I would be interested to know. As far as I can see it's basically feature detection with no other way of detecting it besides the UA.
  - marcusarmstrong 7y ago
    Can’t feature detect during SSR, so making an educated guess and falling back gracefully (when possible—many times it just isn’t, as with ES6 syntax) is important to get initial page load right by default.
- deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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tracker1 7y ago
How do you propose, without some sort of browser and os detection and version to address specific bugs for those environments? Just leave a site/app broken for a few months until/if/when the browser fixes the bug?

by devit 7y ago

pteraspidomorph 7y ago

Seems to be the Firefox plan according to the text.

marcusarmstrong 7y ago

Browser vendor/version is hugely important information for triaging issues and implementing progressive enhancement approaches on large scale websites.

tyingq 7y ago
Perhaps, but it invalidates most of their stated reasons for doing this. Which makes the post a confusing read.
- marcusarmstrong 7y ago
  IMO it’s explained better in the Client Hints specification.
  - HorstG 7y ago
    Client hints are not any more useful than traditional UA for privacy or progressive enhancement. Its the same content, just split up. Any browser not sending everything will have atrocious permission UX, nagging websites or just get the broken IE5 version. UA hints solve nothing, even after reading the spec
- magicalist 7y ago
  > it invalidates most of their stated reasons The "main advantages" section for client hints all seem to apply there.
minitech 7y ago
Triaging issues, sure. Progressive enhancement? If you’re parsing User-Agent to implement that, you’re doing it wrong. (Feature detection is the correct approach, when necessary.)
- nicoburns 7y ago
  There are cases like IndexedDB bugs in certain versions of Safari that are very hard to feature detect...
- grose 7y ago
  Here's an official Google page telling you to sniff UAs or their new feature will break everything: https://www.chromium.org/updates/same-site/incompatible-clients https://www.chromium.org/updates/same-site/incompatible-clie... Edit: OK, this isn't progressive enhancement. But it's still a major problem you have to sniff the User-Agent for. I don't want to sniff UAs either but when Chrome is wont to change how fundamental parts of the web work like cookies it's sometimes necessary. I know UA hints will still allow you to do this, but requiring a second request is going to make things like redirect pages difficult to implement.
  - minitech 7y ago
    SameSite=None isn’t progressive enhancement.
    - grose 7y ago
      You're right, I should have replied elsewhere. By the way, if anyone knows what this _is_ called I would be interested to know. As far as I can see it's basically feature detection with no other way of detecting it besides the UA.
- marcusarmstrong 7y ago
  Can’t feature detect during SSR, so making an educated guess and falling back gracefully (when possible—many times it just isn’t, as with ES6 syntax) is important to get initial page load right by default.
deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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tracker1 7y ago

How do you propose, without some sort of browser and os detection and version to address specific bugs for those environments? Just leave a site/app broken for a few months until/if/when the browser fixes the bug?