4 ms·

PG's prediction inspired by this event: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1217010274672304130 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1217010274672304130

whywhywhywhy 7y ago
Twitters relevancy to the wider world and your actual customers is extremely exaggerated simply because so many journalists rely on it to make their lives easier or are actively addicted to it. End of the day it’s just a glorified Internet forum. Would you oust a CEO because 1000 Reddit users commented against them in a thread? Not likely but it’s about as relevant in the real world as a twitter outrage mob. Not commenting on Away CEOs actions specifically. Just saying that hardly anyone has a twitter account. Hardly anyone with an account actually uses it and out of those who do use it most of the content is driven by a small group of actual addicts of the platform and shouldn’t really be taken as seriously as it is. It’s not the real world, it’s a lens that magnifies a tiny and specific sliver of the world and gives it false credibility beyond what it actually has.
- r_singh 7y ago
  What do you think about people who leave reviews on websites like yelp, tripadvisor, capterra, etc? Do you think they're also review writing addicts who shouldn't be taken seriously or do you think one should take what they write seriously while making a purchase decision? PS - Not trying to compare deciding who to keep CEO vs. making a purchase. Genuinely want your opinion.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    > What do you think about people who leave reviews on websites like yelp, tripadvisor, capterra, etc? Those people are (former) customers. They gave you money and might do it again. Their opinions have real relevance. A journalist’s opinions only matter insofar as they are a customer or their writing changes the behavior of customers.
- netsharc 7y ago
  Edit: well, this is gathering downvotes. I really wonder what people are disagreeing with. Just like Twitter rage culture, you've condemned me/this message as "what a fucking idiot", sadly not even explaining your reasoning. Original comment: Reading the article it does seem she's remorseful about her behavior. > Ms. Korey, at one point nearly breaking down in tears, said that the month since the article was published had been a tough lesson about management — and herself. Hopefully she does learn from this and can change her behavior. But the Twittersphere is fucking bullshit, any small deviation from their standards of perfection and you're the scum of the earth (e.g. Chris Rock's tweets from years ago) that has to be banished from society. Then again, it seems they're selling luggage for the Instagram generation, where the USP is the lifestyle (it's fucking luggage, how sexy can you make it?). In that market the court of online public opinion sadly does matter.
  - r_singh 7y ago
    > I really wonder what people are disagreeing with. I think it's the use of brash language.
- matthewdgreen 7y ago
  I had never heard of Away until I saw the Twitter thread. I assume that this is because it is a niche "luxury" brand that appeals mainly to a relatively small set of well-off younger buyers, which it targets via Internet channels like Twitter and other websites (such as the news organizations who wrote extensively about Away's woes.) Unfortunately for the Away company, the recent bad PR is also disproportionately going to transmitted to its potential customers via those same channels. TL;DR maybe if this was ExxonMobil, some controversy on Twitter would be easy to shrug off. When you're a small Internet-focused company that's trying to sell a niche audience on your aspirational products, being savaged on Twitter and half the trendy Internet seems like terribly bad news.
mintplant 7y ago
The abuses described in the Verge article [0] are painful to hear about. Just try and read the CEO's Slack screed about "teaching accountability" without sounding like a DreamWorks villain. Think about the hours those employees were forced to work, the time off they were deprived, the family trips and plans repeatedly disrupted with the slimmest of notice, if any. The Away management team comes across as manipulative and maximally exploitative at the expense of their employees' well-beings, topped off with a CEO intent on forcing her abysmal work-life balance and sleep schedule on the rest of her staff. With that all laid out, Graham's flippant comment that companies can "safely ignore" backlash against such business practices strikes me as callous and out-of-touch, particularly given his role in the venture-funded system which fosters such conditions in the first place. Another dispatch from the world of rich guys that would have the rest of us slaving away in China's 9-9-6 model [1], interspersed in their feeds with reports of the little moments with family and friends that they'd rather we exchange for a few extra percentage points on their returns. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/5/20995453/away-luggage-ceo-steph-korey-toxic-work-environment-travel-inclusion https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/5/20995453/away-luggage-ceo... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/42daca9e-facc-11e7-9bfc-052cbba03425 https://www.ft.com/content/42daca9e-facc-11e7-9bfc-052cbba03...
- macspoofing 7y ago
  >Just try and read the CEO's Slack screed about "teaching accountability" without sounding like a DreamWorks villain... I did. Let's not overstate it. >The Away management team comes across as manipulative and maximally exploitative at the expense of their employees' well-beings, topped off with a CEO intent on forcing her abysmal work-life balance and sleep schedule on the rest of her staff. This comes across the same way the Verge article does. Namely, it feels like you're just looking for things to be offended by. The specifics are minor and trivial and interesting enough as a case study but certainly not interesting enough as a national story about some great wrong-doing. Here's a random excerpt: "Employees say she swore during interviews, cackled at people’s jokes, and took new hires to lunch, telling stories about her own mistakes. Once, during an interview, a woman remarked that she was drawn to Away because she was a millennial and it was a millennial-friendly product. “I’m a millennial, too,” Korey said. Later, that same employee was told by her manager that Korey had referred to the team as a bunch of “millennial twats.”" I'm not sure what relevance 'cackling' at jokes is (though it evokes sexist tropes) but outside of that, COME ON. That's just pilling on hoping something sticks because it's all a big pile of nothing. There is also an anecdote about Korey shutting down a private slack channel because of toxic and racist messages and reprimanded the employees in question. The story backs this up by referencing messages that called out 'cis white men', but the article then spins it as: "“It just became really obvious that this happened because someone white and powerful got offended,” says the customer experience manager, Lindsey." ... yeah. I think I'm with Korey on this. She made the right move.

whywhywhywhy 7y ago

Twitters relevancy to the wider world and your actual customers is extremely exaggerated simply because so many journalists rely on it to make their lives easier or are actively addicted to it. End of the day it’s just a glorified Internet forum. Would you oust a CEO because 1000 Reddit users commented against them in a thread? Not likely but it’s about as relevant in the real world as a twitter outrage mob. Not commenting on Away CEOs actions specifically. Just saying that hardly anyone has a twitter account. Hardly anyone with an account actually uses it and out of those who do use it most of the content is driven by a small group of actual addicts of the platform and shouldn’t really be taken as seriously as it is. It’s not the real world, it’s a lens that magnifies a tiny and specific sliver of the world and gives it false credibility beyond what it actually has.

r_singh 7y ago
What do you think about people who leave reviews on websites like yelp, tripadvisor, capterra, etc? Do you think they're also review writing addicts who shouldn't be taken seriously or do you think one should take what they write seriously while making a purchase decision? PS - Not trying to compare deciding who to keep CEO vs. making a purchase. Genuinely want your opinion.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  > What do you think about people who leave reviews on websites like yelp, tripadvisor, capterra, etc? Those people are (former) customers. They gave you money and might do it again. Their opinions have real relevance. A journalist’s opinions only matter insofar as they are a customer or their writing changes the behavior of customers.
netsharc 7y ago
Edit: well, this is gathering downvotes. I really wonder what people are disagreeing with. Just like Twitter rage culture, you've condemned me/this message as "what a fucking idiot", sadly not even explaining your reasoning. Original comment: Reading the article it does seem she's remorseful about her behavior. > Ms. Korey, at one point nearly breaking down in tears, said that the month since the article was published had been a tough lesson about management — and herself. Hopefully she does learn from this and can change her behavior. But the Twittersphere is fucking bullshit, any small deviation from their standards of perfection and you're the scum of the earth (e.g. Chris Rock's tweets from years ago) that has to be banished from society. Then again, it seems they're selling luggage for the Instagram generation, where the USP is the lifestyle (it's fucking luggage, how sexy can you make it?). In that market the court of online public opinion sadly does matter.
- r_singh 7y ago
  > I really wonder what people are disagreeing with. I think it's the use of brash language.
matthewdgreen 7y ago
I had never heard of Away until I saw the Twitter thread. I assume that this is because it is a niche "luxury" brand that appeals mainly to a relatively small set of well-off younger buyers, which it targets via Internet channels like Twitter and other websites (such as the news organizations who wrote extensively about Away's woes.) Unfortunately for the Away company, the recent bad PR is also disproportionately going to transmitted to its potential customers via those same channels. TL;DR maybe if this was ExxonMobil, some controversy on Twitter would be easy to shrug off. When you're a small Internet-focused company that's trying to sell a niche audience on your aspirational products, being savaged on Twitter and half the trendy Internet seems like terribly bad news.

mintplant 7y ago

The abuses described in the Verge article [0] are painful to hear about. Just try and read the CEO's Slack screed about "teaching accountability" without sounding like a DreamWorks villain. Think about the hours those employees were forced to work, the time off they were deprived, the family trips and plans repeatedly disrupted with the slimmest of notice, if any. The Away management team comes across as manipulative and maximally exploitative at the expense of their employees' well-beings, topped off with a CEO intent on forcing her abysmal work-life balance and sleep schedule on the rest of her staff. With that all laid out, Graham's flippant comment that companies can "safely ignore" backlash against such business practices strikes me as callous and out-of-touch, particularly given his role in the venture-funded system which fosters such conditions in the first place. Another dispatch from the world of rich guys that would have the rest of us slaving away in China's 9-9-6 model [1], interspersed in their feeds with reports of the little moments with family and friends that they'd rather we exchange for a few extra percentage points on their returns. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/5/20995453/away-luggage-ceo-steph-korey-toxic-work-environment-travel-inclusion https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/5/20995453/away-luggage-ceo... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/42daca9e-facc-11e7-9bfc-052cbba03425 https://www.ft.com/content/42daca9e-facc-11e7-9bfc-052cbba03...

macspoofing 7y ago
>Just try and read the CEO's Slack screed about "teaching accountability" without sounding like a DreamWorks villain... I did. Let's not overstate it. >The Away management team comes across as manipulative and maximally exploitative at the expense of their employees' well-beings, topped off with a CEO intent on forcing her abysmal work-life balance and sleep schedule on the rest of her staff. This comes across the same way the Verge article does. Namely, it feels like you're just looking for things to be offended by. The specifics are minor and trivial and interesting enough as a case study but certainly not interesting enough as a national story about some great wrong-doing. Here's a random excerpt: "Employees say she swore during interviews, cackled at people’s jokes, and took new hires to lunch, telling stories about her own mistakes. Once, during an interview, a woman remarked that she was drawn to Away because she was a millennial and it was a millennial-friendly product. “I’m a millennial, too,” Korey said. Later, that same employee was told by her manager that Korey had referred to the team as a bunch of “millennial twats.”" I'm not sure what relevance 'cackling' at jokes is (though it evokes sexist tropes) but outside of that, COME ON. That's just pilling on hoping something sticks because it's all a big pile of nothing. There is also an anecdote about Korey shutting down a private slack channel because of toxic and racist messages and reprimanded the employees in question. The story backs this up by referencing messages that called out 'cis white men', but the article then spins it as: "“It just became really obvious that this happened because someone white and powerful got offended,” says the customer experience manager, Lindsey." ... yeah. I think I'm with Korey on this. She made the right move.