4 ms·

That's a lot better than some tuition-totals I've seen but at the end of the day, my biggest problem with this system is that it's not accessible to the poor/wo

That's a lot better than some tuition-totals I've seen but at the end of the day, my biggest problem with this system is that it's not accessible to the poor/working-class without loans. I attended a state school for around a month or two. I don't think I knew one person that wasn't paying for it with a loan. I think lower cost is a step in the right direction but I also think there's plenty more to do.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
What's wrong with taking out loans in this situation? This is exactly what loans should be for - making a wise investment in your future. This is especially true if you want to get a CS or related degree. There is a lot of consternation regarding student loans because many students are deluded into getting way in over their heads for degrees that won't end up enabling well-paying careers. That's just not the case with a CS/EE degree at a state school.
- LMYahooTFY 7y ago
  I think a lot of the problems stem from issues tangential to this, e.g. Numerous young people are terrible at managing money, delaying gratification and long term planning, committing to a path (often dealing with choice overload).
JamesBarney 7y ago
My local community college is HCC which costs $3,500 a year, and U of H the local university costs $9,500 a year. So $27,000 to get a degree, which is not a lot of money compared to 4 years of time and effort. Assuming you're waiting tables that would be $120,000 in lost wages.
- kxyvr 7y ago
  Outside of the potential social or philosophical benefits to going to college, a degree can be looked at like an investment. In the case of Houston, UH has good programs hooked into the petrochemical and banking sector in the city. The Bauer College of Business is well regarded and commodities traders start off at around $100k/year in salary and go far higher: https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.html https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.ht... The internship program at the university help facilitate a pathway into these kinds of jobs: https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ Alternatively, the chemical and petrochemical engineering departments are also well regarded. The local paper is only listing the average staring salary salary nationwide, but I recall new local engineering hires making somewhere between $75-$100k: https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting-salary-19178.html https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting... Most seasoned engineers that I know of in the field make in excess of $200k/year and they retire as low millionaires. The point is that $120k in lost wages pales in comparison to the financial security a degree can provide assuming that one has the appetite and ability for that kind of work. UH and HCC get a lot of grief, but it's a reasonable school that produces good people.
  - Gunax 7y ago
    I think in software we have been spoiled. For the most part, degrees are really optional. This is mostly luck as it's possible to do software dev at home (try doing petroleum engineering at home). Most professions require a degree either by legal mandate, or by essence.
- wasdfff 7y ago
  You can easily work part time even with a full course load, and ramp up to full time or more during summers. It’s what I did.
learc83 7y ago
Public loans all qualify for income based repayment. At a state school with in state tuition a CS or engineering degree is almost definitely worth the loans if you're looking for a career change.
ChuckMcM 7y ago
I don't disagree that we could do more. Stanford is free for the poor / working class if their grades and test scores get them admitted. What I'm saying is that while the student loan crisis is real, and higher education costs at "big name" schools are ridiculous. That narrative has some unnecessary hype in it. Specifically, you don't need to go to a "big name" school to get the jobs, state schools are just as good. And state schools (or even better the combination of community college + state school) are affordable for a lot of people. The $40K number isn't an outrageous amount of money to get on a loan (especially when it is in 8 $5K chunks) If you were going to start a gardening business you could put that down on a used pickup truck and some lawn care equipment. My concern is people who read "College costs $150K? No way could I ever pay that off!" and never look deeper. That narrative makes for a click baity story but it isn't the whole truth.
- jessehorne 7y ago
  Fine. I'd be comfortable paying $2400 a year for a 4 year degree. That's my final offer. I won't go over that. If that's not possible then I don't think I'm the target audience! Which is a shame, because I'd really love the legitimacy that a degree would give. To be very honest, I've always dreamed about going further than that and getting a PhD, then contributing to a scientific field. It's honestly been a dream of mine for as long as I can remember. But it's stayed a dream. Real life is harder than your $40k sales-pitch. I absolutely think that's it's possible to pay it off and it's a lot more reasonable than some tuition rates. I'm just saying that if I can't get it for less than $2400 a year, I'm not interested.
  - oneplane 7y ago
    You can, but not in the USA.
    - dodobirdlord 7y ago
      Of course you can. An unfunded PhD program in any technical field is a soft rejection.
  - 7y ago
kick 7y ago
If you're actually poor/working-class: Degrees at SUNY and CUNY are free for residents of New York, and it doesn't take much to count as a resident.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

What's wrong with taking out loans in this situation? This is exactly what loans should be for - making a wise investment in your future. This is especially true if you want to get a CS or related degree. There is a lot of consternation regarding student loans because many students are deluded into getting way in over their heads for degrees that won't end up enabling well-paying careers. That's just not the case with a CS/EE degree at a state school.

LMYahooTFY 7y ago
I think a lot of the problems stem from issues tangential to this, e.g. Numerous young people are terrible at managing money, delaying gratification and long term planning, committing to a path (often dealing with choice overload).

JamesBarney 7y ago

My local community college is HCC which costs $3,500 a year, and U of H the local university costs $9,500 a year. So $27,000 to get a degree, which is not a lot of money compared to 4 years of time and effort. Assuming you're waiting tables that would be $120,000 in lost wages.

kxyvr 7y ago
Outside of the potential social or philosophical benefits to going to college, a degree can be looked at like an investment. In the case of Houston, UH has good programs hooked into the petrochemical and banking sector in the city. The Bauer College of Business is well regarded and commodities traders start off at around $100k/year in salary and go far higher: https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.html https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.ht... The internship program at the university help facilitate a pathway into these kinds of jobs: https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ Alternatively, the chemical and petrochemical engineering departments are also well regarded. The local paper is only listing the average staring salary salary nationwide, but I recall new local engineering hires making somewhere between $75-$100k: https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting-salary-19178.html https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting... Most seasoned engineers that I know of in the field make in excess of $200k/year and they retire as low millionaires. The point is that $120k in lost wages pales in comparison to the financial security a degree can provide assuming that one has the appetite and ability for that kind of work. UH and HCC get a lot of grief, but it's a reasonable school that produces good people.
- Gunax 7y ago
  I think in software we have been spoiled. For the most part, degrees are really optional. This is mostly luck as it's possible to do software dev at home (try doing petroleum engineering at home). Most professions require a degree either by legal mandate, or by essence.
wasdfff 7y ago
You can easily work part time even with a full course load, and ramp up to full time or more during summers. It’s what I did.

learc83 7y ago

Public loans all qualify for income based repayment. At a state school with in state tuition a CS or engineering degree is almost definitely worth the loans if you're looking for a career change.

ChuckMcM 7y ago

I don't disagree that we could do more. Stanford is free for the poor / working class if their grades and test scores get them admitted. What I'm saying is that while the student loan crisis is real, and higher education costs at "big name" schools are ridiculous. That narrative has some unnecessary hype in it. Specifically, you don't need to go to a "big name" school to get the jobs, state schools are just as good. And state schools (or even better the combination of community college + state school) are affordable for a lot of people. The $40K number isn't an outrageous amount of money to get on a loan (especially when it is in 8 $5K chunks) If you were going to start a gardening business you could put that down on a used pickup truck and some lawn care equipment. My concern is people who read "College costs $150K? No way could I ever pay that off!" and never look deeper. That narrative makes for a click baity story but it isn't the whole truth.

jessehorne 7y ago
Fine. I'd be comfortable paying $2400 a year for a 4 year degree. That's my final offer. I won't go over that. If that's not possible then I don't think I'm the target audience! Which is a shame, because I'd really love the legitimacy that a degree would give. To be very honest, I've always dreamed about going further than that and getting a PhD, then contributing to a scientific field. It's honestly been a dream of mine for as long as I can remember. But it's stayed a dream. Real life is harder than your $40k sales-pitch. I absolutely think that's it's possible to pay it off and it's a lot more reasonable than some tuition rates. I'm just saying that if I can't get it for less than $2400 a year, I'm not interested.
- oneplane 7y ago
  You can, but not in the USA.
  - dodobirdlord 7y ago
    Of course you can. An unfunded PhD program in any technical field is a soft rejection.
- 7y ago

kick 7y ago

If you're actually poor/working-class: Degrees at SUNY and CUNY are free for residents of New York, and it doesn't take much to count as a resident.