4 ms·

“ One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm

by jdkee 7y ago

“ One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways.” This is really bad advice. You need to re-watch the video you alluded to in your first paragraph. You do not talk to police. Period. Unless you are asking a.) if you are being detained or b.) asking if you are being placed under arrest. Or to state your legal name.

leggomylibro 7y ago
It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience. Some officers do not care about your rights or the law, and if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone, then you and your lawyer are going to spend a little while dealing with the matter. Whereas if you give nothing away while remaining polite and courteous and aware that you are probably being lied to, you might drive off with a warning. You might still need to fall back to "am I being detained", but you might not. Sometimes you simply can't completely avoid a conversation, especially when the other party can physically compel you and make up an excuse later. There is no universal good advice for such difficult and varied situations, and acting as though there is doesn't do anyone any favors. That's why I like this article and commented on it; the author provides useful knowledge and references without being overly prescriptive. And incidentally, the absolutist "never speak at all" part of the James Duane talk comes with the caveat, "if you are being suspected of a serious crime". The article seems to be more about officer-knocks-on-your-door or traffic stop sort of situations.
- mirimir 7y ago
  > if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone Why would they do that? Is that about being a drug dealer? I've probably been pulled over for speeding and/or crazy driving at least 30 times, and I've never been asked that.
  - artificialLimbs 7y ago
    I wonder if they go fishing for a big catch sometimes. I was pulled over for expired tags a couple weeks ago by city police. They asked for IDs for my wife and friend in the back seat. Our 2 year old was with us as well, in his car seat. We are all quite caucasian, in case anyone is wondering. I have no idea why we were asked this, but I declined the request. We got a warning for the tags.
    - nbar1 7y ago
      To check for outstanding warrants.
  - AlexCoventry 7y ago
    At least as of a few years ago, when police in Ohio stop you they seem to like asking you if you have any firearms in the car, just as the stop is wrapping up. I never figured that one out, either.
    - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
      Depending on the state, you must inform a police officer that you are carrying a gun at the beginning of the stop. It could be a trap or a pretense to search your car.
  - jdkee 7y ago
    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United....
    - mirimir 7y ago
      I guess. So what, cops are coached to ask to help fund the department? If you say "yes", they'll just confiscate it?
      - thephyber 7y ago
- jdkee 7y ago
  I will respond point-by-point to your claims. "It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience." If you do not admit anything, your statements cannot be used against you in court since you did not admit anything. And how do you tell in advance when your purported exculpatory statements will be helpful? Answer: you cannot. Hence you do not make statements. "Some officers do not care about your rights or the law, and if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone, then you and your lawyer are going to spend a little while dealing with the matter." If you are dealing with law enforcement that does not respect the law, why would you not want an attorney to present your side of the argument? "Whereas if you give nothing away while remaining polite and courteous and aware that you are probably being lied to, you might drive off with a warning. You might still need to fall back to "am I being detained", but you might not. Sometimes you simply can't completely avoid a conversation, especially when the other party can physically compel you and make up an excuse later." What you are describing is unlawful behaviour on the part of the law enforcement officer. A law enforcement officer cannot "compel" you to make a statement, as that would be inadmissible in a court of law as a statement made under unlawful duress. "There is no universal good advice for such difficult and varied situations, and acting as though there is doesn't do anyone any favors." Yes, there is under the U.S. criminal justice system. You do not make statements to law enforcement officers who are investigating a crime. "And incidentally, the absolutist "never speak at all" part of the James Duane talk comes with the caveat, "if you are being suspected of a serious crime". The article seems to be more about officer-knocks-on-your-door or traffic stop sort of situations." Whether it is a criminal offense or a civil wrong, e.g. a parking ticket, the same logic applies. Do not make statements to law enforcement.
  - solotronics 7y ago
    I always say politely "I respectfully decline to answer questions." I never make it a machismo contest or get upset, but sometimes I have to repeat that a few times. Also super important "I decline a search of my vehicle and person as a matter of principal."
  - 7y ago

by jdkee 7y ago

leggomylibro 7y ago

It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience. Some officers do not care about your rights or the law, and if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone, then you and your lawyer are going to spend a little while dealing with the matter. Whereas if you give nothing away while remaining polite and courteous and aware that you are probably being lied to, you might drive off with a warning. You might still need to fall back to "am I being detained", but you might not. Sometimes you simply can't completely avoid a conversation, especially when the other party can physically compel you and make up an excuse later. There is no universal good advice for such difficult and varied situations, and acting as though there is doesn't do anyone any favors. That's why I like this article and commented on it; the author provides useful knowledge and references without being overly prescriptive. And incidentally, the absolutist "never speak at all" part of the James Duane talk comes with the caveat, "if you are being suspected of a serious crime". The article seems to be more about officer-knocks-on-your-door or traffic stop sort of situations.

mirimir 7y ago
> if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone Why would they do that? Is that about being a drug dealer? I've probably been pulled over for speeding and/or crazy driving at least 30 times, and I've never been asked that.
- artificialLimbs 7y ago
  I wonder if they go fishing for a big catch sometimes. I was pulled over for expired tags a couple weeks ago by city police. They asked for IDs for my wife and friend in the back seat. Our 2 year old was with us as well, in his car seat. We are all quite caucasian, in case anyone is wondering. I have no idea why we were asked this, but I declined the request. We got a warning for the tags.
  - nbar1 7y ago
    To check for outstanding warrants.
- AlexCoventry 7y ago
  At least as of a few years ago, when police in Ohio stop you they seem to like asking you if you have any firearms in the car, just as the stop is wrapping up. I never figured that one out, either.
  - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
    Depending on the state, you must inform a police officer that you are carrying a gun at the beginning of the stop. It could be a trap or a pretense to search your car.
- jdkee 7y ago
  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United....
  - mirimir 7y ago
    I guess. So what, cops are coached to ask to help fund the department? If you say "yes", they'll just confiscate it?
    - thephyber 7y ago
jdkee 7y ago
I will respond point-by-point to your claims. "It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience." If you do not admit anything, your statements cannot be used against you in court since you did not admit anything. And how do you tell in advance when your purported exculpatory statements will be helpful? Answer: you cannot. Hence you do not make statements. "Some officers do not care about your rights or the law, and if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone, then you and your lawyer are going to spend a little while dealing with the matter." If you are dealing with law enforcement that does not respect the law, why would you not want an attorney to present your side of the argument? "Whereas if you give nothing away while remaining polite and courteous and aware that you are probably being lied to, you might drive off with a warning. You might still need to fall back to "am I being detained", but you might not. Sometimes you simply can't completely avoid a conversation, especially when the other party can physically compel you and make up an excuse later." What you are describing is unlawful behaviour on the part of the law enforcement officer. A law enforcement officer cannot "compel" you to make a statement, as that would be inadmissible in a court of law as a statement made under unlawful duress. "There is no universal good advice for such difficult and varied situations, and acting as though there is doesn't do anyone any favors." Yes, there is under the U.S. criminal justice system. You do not make statements to law enforcement officers who are investigating a crime. "And incidentally, the absolutist "never speak at all" part of the James Duane talk comes with the caveat, "if you are being suspected of a serious crime". The article seems to be more about officer-knocks-on-your-door or traffic stop sort of situations." Whether it is a criminal offense or a civil wrong, e.g. a parking ticket, the same logic applies. Do not make statements to law enforcement.
- solotronics 7y ago
  I always say politely "I respectfully decline to answer questions." I never make it a machismo contest or get upset, but sometimes I have to repeat that a few times. Also super important "I decline a search of my vehicle and person as a matter of principal."
- 7y ago