5 ms·

That one doesn't make any sense to me. Alcohol is basically poison. Perhaps small amounts of it won't do any harm to you, but how could it possibly have a posit

That one doesn't make any sense to me. Alcohol is basically poison. Perhaps small amounts of it won't do any harm to you, but how could it possibly have a positive effect on your health?

twinkletwinkle_ 7y ago
The key word is definitely "only".
- izzydata 7y ago
  I don't agree. Even if you "only" drank in moderation forever and never drank too much for your liver to deal with it isn't helping anything. At the absolute best it simply isn't hurting anything. Which I'm really not convinced that is even true.
  - freetime2 7y ago
    I didn’t read that advice to mean you should drink daily. Rather that if you do drink, it should be limited to a certain amount per day.
enraged_camel 7y ago
It’s also a stress-reliever, and is frequently consumed in the company of others, so it has social benefits as well.
mrlala 7y ago
Maybe it can have a positive affect on your mental health, in moderation? Sharing a bottle of wine or champagne with my wife can be one of the most enjoyable experiences to us.. going out to the pub having some beer with family & friends is great. An argument could be "you can have just as much fun doing something else", but I don't know.. that's not really my experience. A moderate amount of drinking usually makes things even more fun.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  In a business regard, people are usually perfectly understanding of a cost/benefit analysis—but when it comes to something like alcohol you hear a lot more absolutism. It surprises me a little bit.
- xchaotic 7y ago
  Absolutely this. Hypothetically you could have fun with no alcohol, in practice the people that don’t drink are the most boring and as a result don’t get laid as much. You will die anyway maybe ten years later but if you don’t reproduce you’ve lost the gene game and the future population will be of those that drank. Which maybe explains why we still drink despite health reasons to the contrary.
maximente 7y ago
one the upstream replies is telling: it says, basically, you might hang out and socialize if you get a drink after work, whereas it'd be "healthier" to just eat a salad or something and go to bed early; presumably, he'd forsake any potential social stuff for all of that healthy stuff. it may be that the act of consuming alcohol is a confounding variable in the underlying correlation of social interaction/un-stressing or something.
patall 7y ago
Well, historically it did by sterilizing water. Also degrading alcohol gives you energy and may make you socialize more which might be good for your mental health. Directly benefitial? Probably not.
Bartweiss 7y ago
The study actually does show small positive effects to alcohol, but it's also trying to differentiate alcohol (minimal impact at low doses) from smoking (strong and strictly negative impact at all doses). You can see the study's alcohol results by dose here: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/368/bmj.l6669/F2.large.jpg https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/368/bmj.l6669/F2.large.jpg From the study text: > We observed a relatively small difference in life expectancies across different levels of alcohol consumption compared with other individual lifestyle factors. The cardiovascular benefits of moderate alcohol consumption have been consistently observed in large cohort studies, but alcohol consumption and risk of cancer showed a dose-response relation. Thus, current guidelines do not encourage a non-alcohol drinker to start drinking just for the benefit of preventing cardiovascular disease. Female life expectancy peaks in the two lowest non-zero ranges, and disease-free expectancy at the second-lowest specifically; male life expectancy rises all the way to the top of "moderate" consumption, and disease-free peaks at the top two "moderate" doses. Presumably that's partly from men being larger and metabolizing alcohol faster, and partly from men being at higher risk of heart disease. (There's probably a healthy-user bias here too, since there are conditions and medications which weren't checked for that would make people unable to tolerate alcohol, but that's less relevant when comparing different doses.)
mamon 7y ago
I think the research papers claiming that were already debunked: they simply did not control for age, so abistinents group was actually 7-10 years older that moderate drinkers. Or, to put a cynical spin on it: noone becomes an abstinent by choice, usually people stop drinking once their doctor tells them they should, so obviously they will have worse overall health than moderate drinkers.
downerending 7y ago
Look up "hormesis". As they say, the dose makes the poison, and for a lot of "bad" things, small amounts are actually beneficial. (Incredibly to me, even small doses of radiation can be protective against larger doses later.)
ecwilson 7y ago
I've always assumed it was one of two things: 1. The social benefit. There's research showing that if you have a rich social life and friend network, you live longer. The assumption being that the drink is likely to be with other people. 2. The stress management benefit. It's not healthy to be stressed out. The alcohol's mitigating effect on stress may be greater than the alcohol's poisonous effect, in the right dose, for the right person.

That one doesn't make any sense to me. Alcohol is basically poison. Perhaps small amounts of it won't do any harm to you, but how could it possibly have a positive effect on your health?

twinkletwinkle_ 7y ago

The key word is definitely "only".

izzydata 7y ago
I don't agree. Even if you "only" drank in moderation forever and never drank too much for your liver to deal with it isn't helping anything. At the absolute best it simply isn't hurting anything. Which I'm really not convinced that is even true.
- freetime2 7y ago
  I didn’t read that advice to mean you should drink daily. Rather that if you do drink, it should be limited to a certain amount per day.

enraged_camel 7y ago

It’s also a stress-reliever, and is frequently consumed in the company of others, so it has social benefits as well.

mrlala 7y ago

Maybe it can have a positive affect on your mental health, in moderation? Sharing a bottle of wine or champagne with my wife can be one of the most enjoyable experiences to us.. going out to the pub having some beer with family & friends is great. An argument could be "you can have just as much fun doing something else", but I don't know.. that's not really my experience. A moderate amount of drinking usually makes things even more fun.

52-6F-62 7y ago
In a business regard, people are usually perfectly understanding of a cost/benefit analysis—but when it comes to something like alcohol you hear a lot more absolutism. It surprises me a little bit.
xchaotic 7y ago
Absolutely this. Hypothetically you could have fun with no alcohol, in practice the people that don’t drink are the most boring and as a result don’t get laid as much. You will die anyway maybe ten years later but if you don’t reproduce you’ve lost the gene game and the future population will be of those that drank. Which maybe explains why we still drink despite health reasons to the contrary.

maximente 7y ago

one the upstream replies is telling: it says, basically, you might hang out and socialize if you get a drink after work, whereas it'd be "healthier" to just eat a salad or something and go to bed early; presumably, he'd forsake any potential social stuff for all of that healthy stuff. it may be that the act of consuming alcohol is a confounding variable in the underlying correlation of social interaction/un-stressing or something.

patall 7y ago

Well, historically it did by sterilizing water. Also degrading alcohol gives you energy and may make you socialize more which might be good for your mental health. Directly benefitial? Probably not.

Bartweiss 7y ago

The study actually does show small positive effects to alcohol, but it's also trying to differentiate alcohol (minimal impact at low doses) from smoking (strong and strictly negative impact at all doses). You can see the study's alcohol results by dose here: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/368/bmj.l6669/F2.large.jpg https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/368/bmj.l6669/F2.large.jpg From the study text: > We observed a relatively small difference in life expectancies across different levels of alcohol consumption compared with other individual lifestyle factors. The cardiovascular benefits of moderate alcohol consumption have been consistently observed in large cohort studies, but alcohol consumption and risk of cancer showed a dose-response relation. Thus, current guidelines do not encourage a non-alcohol drinker to start drinking just for the benefit of preventing cardiovascular disease. Female life expectancy peaks in the two lowest non-zero ranges, and disease-free expectancy at the second-lowest specifically; male life expectancy rises all the way to the top of "moderate" consumption, and disease-free peaks at the top two "moderate" doses. Presumably that's partly from men being larger and metabolizing alcohol faster, and partly from men being at higher risk of heart disease. (There's probably a healthy-user bias here too, since there are conditions and medications which weren't checked for that would make people unable to tolerate alcohol, but that's less relevant when comparing different doses.)

mamon 7y ago

I think the research papers claiming that were already debunked: they simply did not control for age, so abistinents group was actually 7-10 years older that moderate drinkers. Or, to put a cynical spin on it: noone becomes an abstinent by choice, usually people stop drinking once their doctor tells them they should, so obviously they will have worse overall health than moderate drinkers.

downerending 7y ago

Look up "hormesis". As they say, the dose makes the poison, and for a lot of "bad" things, small amounts are actually beneficial. (Incredibly to me, even small doses of radiation can be protective against larger doses later.)

ecwilson 7y ago

I've always assumed it was one of two things: 1. The social benefit. There's research showing that if you have a rich social life and friend network, you live longer. The assumption being that the drink is likely to be with other people. 2. The stress management benefit. It's not healthy to be stressed out. The alcohol's mitigating effect on stress may be greater than the alcohol's poisonous effect, in the right dose, for the right person.