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I'm glued to AlJazeera at the moment and have definitely been following the whole story with enthusiastic interest since the beginning. BUT Why are we discuss

I'm glued to AlJazeera at the moment and have definitely been following the whole story with enthusiastic interest since the beginning. BUT Why are we discussing this topic here again? Seems completely off-topic...

robryan 16y ago
Pretty much every piece of really significant world news gets discussed here, no matter what the topic. I find that fine, as long as the bar is high enough that it's not all the time.
- siavosh 16y ago
  Agreed, it actually makes me feel proud that this community is so well rounded...unlike a lot of other fields.
  - zeteo 16y ago
    This community is not supposed to be "well rounded". I think you're looking for Digg and Reddit.
    - robryan 16y ago
      If the community doesn't want this here then why does it have nearly 100 up votes in under an hour?
      - zeteo 16y ago
        Have you stopped beating your wife?
        genieyclo 16y ago
        For the downvoters, zeteo is referencing a logical fallacy used by the parent comment to his: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html
        jbooth 16y ago
        It's not a loaded question, it's a statement of fact "100 upvotes", implied conclusion "community wants this", and invitation to provide alternative explanation "question mark".
        zeteo 16y ago
        It's loaded because it sets up and destroys a straw man. The great-great-great-grandparent never argued that the community doesn't want this, only that it's not supposed to.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
arjn 16y ago
I agree, how does this qualify as hacker news ? There are other websites where this has its place.
mindcrime 16y ago
I agree that it's not exactly "on topic" in the traditional sense, but it's important enough in the general sense, that a lot of hackers actually are interested. At the end of the day, what's on-topic or not reduces to what people vote up and/or don't vote up. People want to discuss this, so it's on topic unless pg or an editor decide they don't like it for some reason, and manually axe it.
- yogiprerna 16y ago
  agreed. it's also widely considered to be a technology-inspired revolution.
zeteo 16y ago
I have no sympathy for Mubarak, but the way the mass-media has been covering this has been totally one-sided. There are a few interesting technical sides of the story (Internet getting shut down), but overall the whole thing smacks too much of propaganda. So I agree that the general story has no place on HN.
- derleth 16y ago
  Does every story have an "other side" like you seem to expect? What if Mubarak really is just another kleptocratic authoritarian now showing possible signs of mental instability with his "I'll leave/I'm staying" schtick? Is it the media's job to make that seem sympathetic? In fact, I'll go further with this: One of the big things I hate about (American) mainstream media is that it tries too hard to give "both sides" of a one-sided issue. A case in point is the whole thing about whether vaccines cause autism: Informed people knew from pretty much day one that they don't, and that the whole supposed 'debate' was completely manufactured by a combination of cynical lawsuit-mongers and abysmally ignorant celebrities. Yet you'd have never known that from how respectfully those trolls were treated and how seriously the 'debates' were handled in the mainstream media. That's actually a somewhat common critique of the media; I'm bringing it up now because what you said happened to clang on it to some extent. I'm not trying to attack you with it.
  - watchandwait 16y ago
    For what it is worth, Mubarak has been a peacemaker in the Middle East, and largely a protector of Egyptian minorities.
  - zeteo 16y ago
    As years go by, we discover that even Nicholas II had his good sides, and his regime was certainly better than its replacement. And the last czar was much more of an autocrat than Mubarak ever hoped for. In any case, what I'm taking issue with is that the media show huge bias by immediately jumping on any rumors of Mubarak's resignation (self fulfilling prophecies, anyone?), that all anti-government protesters are portrayed as noble heroes (even though a significant proportion are certainly West-hating Islamic radicals), that all of Mubarak's supporters are paid thugs etc. This is a huge political morass and something that doesn't belong on HN.
jeromec 16y ago
You're right that according to the site's guidelines (http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) political stories are usually off-topic. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. However, there is an exception given for "interesting new phenomenon". I would say revolutions of a scale not seen in a region for thousands of years would qualify.
- ebiester 16y ago
  Turkey? Iran?
  - llambda 16y ago
    Seems like Iran gave that a try before but without much success. Depending on how you measure success of course...
  - utku_karatas2 16y ago
    What about Turkey? He is going through an era of political and economical stability unseen since his inception 80 years ago.
- smackay 16y ago
  What is most compelling about this is first it was Tunisia, then Egypt. Who is next? If it continues it will probably be world-changing no matter what the outcome.
  - cabalamat 16y ago
    I'd guess either Jordan or Syria. Though I'd expect autocrats around the world will not be pleased.
  - Qz 16y ago
    What's interesting is that several of the potential countries have been taking pre-emptive steps to avoid exactly this situation. Yemen's dictator said he won't try to get his term extended to life, Jordan's king sacked his entire government, Algeria's dictator pulled back the country's two decades of emergency law, and Syria cracked down on protesters with police beatings...
jbooth 16y ago
You're right. Let's discuss why we're discussing it, instead.
mrleinad 16y ago
Because it's an interesting phenomenon as previosly stated, and because we're talking about a politician that managed to cut off an entire country from the Internet.
redthrowaway 16y ago
I'd say a developing grass-roots democratic revolution in the middle east is of supreme interest to most people here, as is evidenced by the stories being atop the front page. Don't worry, we're not turning into reddit. This is just some momentous shit (pardon my french), and it would be pretty silly not to have breaking developments up here.

robryan 16y ago

Pretty much every piece of really significant world news gets discussed here, no matter what the topic. I find that fine, as long as the bar is high enough that it's not all the time.

siavosh 16y ago
Agreed, it actually makes me feel proud that this community is so well rounded...unlike a lot of other fields.
- zeteo 16y ago
  This community is not supposed to be "well rounded". I think you're looking for Digg and Reddit.
  - robryan 16y ago
    If the community doesn't want this here then why does it have nearly 100 up votes in under an hour?
    - zeteo 16y ago
      Have you stopped beating your wife?
      - genieyclo 16y ago
        For the downvoters, zeteo is referencing a logical fallacy used by the parent comment to his: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html
        jbooth 16y ago
        It's not a loaded question, it's a statement of fact "100 upvotes", implied conclusion "community wants this", and invitation to provide alternative explanation "question mark".
        zeteo 16y ago
        It's loaded because it sets up and destroys a straw man. The great-great-great-grandparent never argued that the community doesn't want this, only that it's not supposed to.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

arjn 16y ago

I agree, how does this qualify as hacker news ? There are other websites where this has its place.

mindcrime 16y ago

I agree that it's not exactly "on topic" in the traditional sense, but it's important enough in the general sense, that a lot of hackers actually are interested. At the end of the day, what's on-topic or not reduces to what people vote up and/or don't vote up. People want to discuss this, so it's on topic unless pg or an editor decide they don't like it for some reason, and manually axe it.

yogiprerna 16y ago
agreed. it's also widely considered to be a technology-inspired revolution.

zeteo 16y ago

I have no sympathy for Mubarak, but the way the mass-media has been covering this has been totally one-sided. There are a few interesting technical sides of the story (Internet getting shut down), but overall the whole thing smacks too much of propaganda. So I agree that the general story has no place on HN.

derleth 16y ago
Does every story have an "other side" like you seem to expect? What if Mubarak really is just another kleptocratic authoritarian now showing possible signs of mental instability with his "I'll leave/I'm staying" schtick? Is it the media's job to make that seem sympathetic? In fact, I'll go further with this: One of the big things I hate about (American) mainstream media is that it tries too hard to give "both sides" of a one-sided issue. A case in point is the whole thing about whether vaccines cause autism: Informed people knew from pretty much day one that they don't, and that the whole supposed 'debate' was completely manufactured by a combination of cynical lawsuit-mongers and abysmally ignorant celebrities. Yet you'd have never known that from how respectfully those trolls were treated and how seriously the 'debates' were handled in the mainstream media. That's actually a somewhat common critique of the media; I'm bringing it up now because what you said happened to clang on it to some extent. I'm not trying to attack you with it.
- watchandwait 16y ago
  For what it is worth, Mubarak has been a peacemaker in the Middle East, and largely a protector of Egyptian minorities.
- zeteo 16y ago
  As years go by, we discover that even Nicholas II had his good sides, and his regime was certainly better than its replacement. And the last czar was much more of an autocrat than Mubarak ever hoped for. In any case, what I'm taking issue with is that the media show huge bias by immediately jumping on any rumors of Mubarak's resignation (self fulfilling prophecies, anyone?), that all anti-government protesters are portrayed as noble heroes (even though a significant proportion are certainly West-hating Islamic radicals), that all of Mubarak's supporters are paid thugs etc. This is a huge political morass and something that doesn't belong on HN.

jeromec 16y ago

You're right that according to the site's guidelines (http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) political stories are usually off-topic. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. However, there is an exception given for "interesting new phenomenon". I would say revolutions of a scale not seen in a region for thousands of years would qualify.

ebiester 16y ago
Turkey? Iran?
- llambda 16y ago
  Seems like Iran gave that a try before but without much success. Depending on how you measure success of course...
- utku_karatas2 16y ago
  What about Turkey? He is going through an era of political and economical stability unseen since his inception 80 years ago.
smackay 16y ago
What is most compelling about this is first it was Tunisia, then Egypt. Who is next? If it continues it will probably be world-changing no matter what the outcome.
- cabalamat 16y ago
  I'd guess either Jordan or Syria. Though I'd expect autocrats around the world will not be pleased.
- Qz 16y ago
  What's interesting is that several of the potential countries have been taking pre-emptive steps to avoid exactly this situation. Yemen's dictator said he won't try to get his term extended to life, Jordan's king sacked his entire government, Algeria's dictator pulled back the country's two decades of emergency law, and Syria cracked down on protesters with police beatings...

jbooth 16y ago

You're right. Let's discuss why we're discussing it, instead.

mrleinad 16y ago

Because it's an interesting phenomenon as previosly stated, and because we're talking about a politician that managed to cut off an entire country from the Internet.

redthrowaway 16y ago

I'd say a developing grass-roots democratic revolution in the middle east is of supreme interest to most people here, as is evidenced by the stories being atop the front page. Don't worry, we're not turning into reddit. This is just some momentous shit (pardon my french), and it would be pretty silly not to have breaking developments up here.