5 ms·

> Vocational training isn't going to fix the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day. >

by Seenso 7y ago

> Vocational training isn't going to fix the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day. > Enabled by the preponderance of easily accessible government money, drugs, etc, these men... The benefits we're talking about here are disability benefits, and the intended outcome of those is that some people will be able to stay at home all day. "Fixing" this problem by curtailing the benefits would not fix anything, but rather just reintroduce the problems that the benefits solved (like increased economic burdens on loved ones, homelessness, etc.).

DubiousPusher 7y ago
Yeah, what this article fails to address at all is the way people like this got by historically. The truly 100% disabled were put into work houses or left on the street. Those partly able bodied had a much more diverse array of employment/living arrangements that society accepted. i.e. you could be partly disabled and get yourself a live in job as a domestic or farm hand. This ensured your room and board was covered and that daily you worked with a group of people who understood your needs. But it virtually guaranteed you'd never have a home or family of your own. The able bodied shirkers who didn't feel like working would do a few siffert thingsb, bum off family, work as cons or professional criminals, or find themselves a sweet job with a group of like minded shirkers or lackies that would cover for them. This changed a bit with the middle of the 20th centuury needing so many workers but then the U.S. unleashed women into the work force. The vast majority of them were bound to outshine the bottom 11% of men easily.
thephyber 7y ago
> “ Fixing" this problem by curtailing the benefits... Another way to address a partial fix is to decriminalize getting a job after previously being on disability. Currently that is used as evidence that there was no previous disability and can lead to prosecution for fraud and attempts to claw back those previous benefits.
- L-four 7y ago
  It's even worse it works both ways. Trying to get a job can stop your benefits and if the job doesn't work out you'll have a hard time getting your benefits back. Better to not try.
  - bostonvaulter2 7y ago
    Wow those are absolutely terrible incentives that we've setup. I didn't realize that it was so bad.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y ago
      Consider housing assistance programs. Using rough numbers. Say you make $25k/yr. And benefits are capped at 26k. You get 500/mo towards rent, or 6k/yr. Unless you get at least a 6k raise (add ~30% for taxes, 7.8k) you would be stupid to take a different job or even a pay raise. Warning: There's probably a bunch of mathematical errors ahead. This example does not take other assistance programs into account like snap/EBT, fuel assistance, cars for low income families, Medicaid benefits, etc. Snap/EBT can be $200+/mo iirc, fuel assistance 200-1k/yr, Medicaid for a family is $600+/mo. Assuming 100ebt/mo, 500 fuel/yr, 600/mo Medicaid that's an additional 8.9k. 6000 housing 1200 ebt 500 fuel 7200 Medicaid ~15k ×1.3 for taxes = 19.5k in benefits that cap if you make 1k more. 25+19.5=44.5k The parent earning 25k would need to nearly double their income to fill the gap between left by benefits they no longer qualify for. This didn't consider health care deductibles, dental (children get dental on Medicaid), or out of pocket expensive covered by Medicaid. My health insurance plans max out of pocket is 8k. Add that. Low income Families are also eligible for school lunch assistance, subsidized day care/after school programs. School breakfast and lunch at my school was 5.5/day/180 days. ~1k. Day care, summer programs,holiday programs, and after school programs can add 20k/yr. Add another 29k. (37.7) Which brings us to 78.2k This parent who smartly took advantage of every opportunity they could recieves 200% their take home in assistance. Now after filing hundreds of forms to take advantage of these programs how much time do you think they'll have to spend towards tripling their income? How much time will they even have to spend with their children between the constant battles with bureaucracies for benefits and their job to spend with their child?

by Seenso 7y ago

DubiousPusher 7y ago

Yeah, what this article fails to address at all is the way people like this got by historically. The truly 100% disabled were put into work houses or left on the street. Those partly able bodied had a much more diverse array of employment/living arrangements that society accepted. i.e. you could be partly disabled and get yourself a live in job as a domestic or farm hand. This ensured your room and board was covered and that daily you worked with a group of people who understood your needs. But it virtually guaranteed you'd never have a home or family of your own. The able bodied shirkers who didn't feel like working would do a few siffert thingsb, bum off family, work as cons or professional criminals, or find themselves a sweet job with a group of like minded shirkers or lackies that would cover for them. This changed a bit with the middle of the 20th centuury needing so many workers but then the U.S. unleashed women into the work force. The vast majority of them were bound to outshine the bottom 11% of men easily.

thephyber 7y ago

> “ Fixing" this problem by curtailing the benefits... Another way to address a partial fix is to decriminalize getting a job after previously being on disability. Currently that is used as evidence that there was no previous disability and can lead to prosecution for fraud and attempts to claw back those previous benefits.

L-four 7y ago
It's even worse it works both ways. Trying to get a job can stop your benefits and if the job doesn't work out you'll have a hard time getting your benefits back. Better to not try.
- bostonvaulter2 7y ago
  Wow those are absolutely terrible incentives that we've setup. I didn't realize that it was so bad.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y ago
    Consider housing assistance programs. Using rough numbers. Say you make $25k/yr. And benefits are capped at 26k. You get 500/mo towards rent, or 6k/yr. Unless you get at least a 6k raise (add ~30% for taxes, 7.8k) you would be stupid to take a different job or even a pay raise. Warning: There's probably a bunch of mathematical errors ahead. This example does not take other assistance programs into account like snap/EBT, fuel assistance, cars for low income families, Medicaid benefits, etc. Snap/EBT can be $200+/mo iirc, fuel assistance 200-1k/yr, Medicaid for a family is $600+/mo. Assuming 100ebt/mo, 500 fuel/yr, 600/mo Medicaid that's an additional 8.9k. 6000 housing 1200 ebt 500 fuel 7200 Medicaid ~15k ×1.3 for taxes = 19.5k in benefits that cap if you make 1k more. 25+19.5=44.5k The parent earning 25k would need to nearly double their income to fill the gap between left by benefits they no longer qualify for. This didn't consider health care deductibles, dental (children get dental on Medicaid), or out of pocket expensive covered by Medicaid. My health insurance plans max out of pocket is 8k. Add that. Low income Families are also eligible for school lunch assistance, subsidized day care/after school programs. School breakfast and lunch at my school was 5.5/day/180 days. ~1k. Day care, summer programs,holiday programs, and after school programs can add 20k/yr. Add another 29k. (37.7) Which brings us to 78.2k This parent who smartly took advantage of every opportunity they could recieves 200% their take home in assistance. Now after filing hundreds of forms to take advantage of these programs how much time do you think they'll have to spend towards tripling their income? How much time will they even have to spend with their children between the constant battles with bureaucracies for benefits and their job to spend with their child?