6 ms·

Could be the difference in pay for low wage jobs. It seems that this is what it comes down to. Many male, high-school dropouts have decided it's a better deal

Could be the difference in pay for low wage jobs. It seems that this is what it comes down to. Many male, high-school dropouts have decided it's a better deal to just coast by on disability and money from friends/family then to work for $10/hour at McDonald's or similar. The way to bring them back into the workforce, IMO, is to offer them a better deal. If low-wage jobs in the U.S. were as good as they are in Eastern Europe, maybe more men would take them.

rpiguy 7y ago
Another person commented below what I think is brilliant insight. "In America (USA) you ARE your job; it defines you. The American Way is to be hard working and self sufficient. If you can't do that, there are tremendous psychological effects. You can't blame these men for giving up." It is absolutely true that worth and career are highly correlated here in the US. Most of us talk about work even when we aren't at work. I think this is probably the big difference between US and Europe having read it.
- tathougies 7y ago
  Meh. The idea that Americans talk only about their job is mainly only true in the upper classes of professionals. Most Americans, the poor and lower middle class, do not talk about their jobs, because talking about being a taxi driver or walmart greeter is not as engaging as talking about being an investment banker, lawyer, or software engineer. FWIW, the same is true in Europe. Rich people define themselves by the method in which they get rich. > Most of us talk about work even when we aren't at work People on hacker news are mostly upper middle class.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    Another way to phrase that is that jobs at the lower end are not worth talking about. They're not a point of pride. Combine that with the GP notion that people use their job as part of their identity and what does that do to their self esteem?
burntoutfire 7y ago
> If low-wage jobs in the U.S. were as good as they are in Eastern Europe, maybe more men would take them. Are you saying low wage wage jobs are good in EE? I can assure you that's not the case. Millions of low wage workes from EE left for Western Europe upon joining the EU. They still do low wage work, but the pay is so much higher in the UK, Germany, Norway etc.

rpiguy 7y ago

Another person commented below what I think is brilliant insight. "In America (USA) you ARE your job; it defines you. The American Way is to be hard working and self sufficient. If you can't do that, there are tremendous psychological effects. You can't blame these men for giving up." It is absolutely true that worth and career are highly correlated here in the US. Most of us talk about work even when we aren't at work. I think this is probably the big difference between US and Europe having read it.

tathougies 7y ago
Meh. The idea that Americans talk only about their job is mainly only true in the upper classes of professionals. Most Americans, the poor and lower middle class, do not talk about their jobs, because talking about being a taxi driver or walmart greeter is not as engaging as talking about being an investment banker, lawyer, or software engineer. FWIW, the same is true in Europe. Rich people define themselves by the method in which they get rich. > Most of us talk about work even when we aren't at work People on hacker news are mostly upper middle class.
- phkahler 7y ago
  Another way to phrase that is that jobs at the lower end are not worth talking about. They're not a point of pride. Combine that with the GP notion that people use their job as part of their identity and what does that do to their self esteem?

burntoutfire 7y ago

> If low-wage jobs in the U.S. were as good as they are in Eastern Europe, maybe more men would take them. Are you saying low wage wage jobs are good in EE? I can assure you that's not the case. Millions of low wage workes from EE left for Western Europe upon joining the EU. They still do low wage work, but the pay is so much higher in the UK, Germany, Norway etc.