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So, instead of "learning a new language", they're "configuring a new integration"? Guess how much these differ...spoiler: two marketing labels for the same thin

So, instead of "learning a new language", they're "configuring a new integration"? Guess how much these differ...spoiler: two marketing labels for the same thing.

cm2012 7y ago
I can train one of my juniors in how zapier works in an afternoon. Teaching them (or myself) a programming language would take years and be more error prone.
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  Okay, now that makes sense. I have originally understood it as "...and the dev team also gets to manage the no-code thing."
- ebiester 7y ago
  I can teach IF, FOR, and the basics of python in a week. I can teach ruby in about the same. For what they are going to need for a low code solution, that's enough. You don't need to teach all of programming - only a subset that would be covered in a low/no code solution. If you don't believe this, look at how many non-CS professionals have learned VBA as their excel-fu reached a limit. Even if it's not clean to start, the natural human curiosity starts to take over. One of the better programmers I ever knew had a high school education and was working in an airplane maintenance facility when he was frustrated with the tools he had and just started learning VBA on his own.
  - Dirlewanger 7y ago
    Doesn't matter if teaching fundamentals only takes "a week" -- that can't be afforded when you need a tool right now.
    - ebiester 7y ago
      While true, that's a big failure of business - fix the pipeline before the fire, no?
  - satyrnein 7y ago
    I think you might be underestimating what these tools can do. I'm not the person you're replying to, but I have also seen a junior marketing person create a Web form to be sent to clients (using Jotform or similar), have it output to a Google sheet, have Zapier pick it up and move it to Airtable, where he defined a bunch of extra fields for internal staff to annotate the submissions, all while getting notifications when certain conditions were met. Not only could he not learn enough python in a week to do this, but the professional developers on my team could not do this in a week.
    - Piskvorrr 7y ago
      This actually feels very unixish. `form | sheet; crontab: zapier | airtable`. Simple tools that can be simply combined - I feel similar about Tasker, where I can combine various building blocks without worrying about compiling an app. (It does get cumbersome without an IDE)
  - pkalinowski 7y ago
    > I can teach IF, FOR, and the basics of python in a week. I can teach ruby in about the same. For what they are going to need for a low code solution, that's enough. You don't need to teach all of programming - only a subset that would be covered in a low/no code solution. OK, now what? Do you teach them deployment of those "low code solutions"? Is it another week? "Oh, now you want to send a notification to Slack? That's a little above basics. What about another week of learning the concept of libraries?" Do you see the pattern?

So, instead of "learning a new language", they're "configuring a new integration"? Guess how much these differ...spoiler: two marketing labels for the same thing.

cm2012 7y ago

I can train one of my juniors in how zapier works in an afternoon. Teaching them (or myself) a programming language would take years and be more error prone.

Piskvorrr 7y ago
Okay, now that makes sense. I have originally understood it as "...and the dev team also gets to manage the no-code thing."
ebiester 7y ago
I can teach IF, FOR, and the basics of python in a week. I can teach ruby in about the same. For what they are going to need for a low code solution, that's enough. You don't need to teach all of programming - only a subset that would be covered in a low/no code solution. If you don't believe this, look at how many non-CS professionals have learned VBA as their excel-fu reached a limit. Even if it's not clean to start, the natural human curiosity starts to take over. One of the better programmers I ever knew had a high school education and was working in an airplane maintenance facility when he was frustrated with the tools he had and just started learning VBA on his own.
- Dirlewanger 7y ago
  Doesn't matter if teaching fundamentals only takes "a week" -- that can't be afforded when you need a tool right now.
  - ebiester 7y ago
    While true, that's a big failure of business - fix the pipeline before the fire, no?
- satyrnein 7y ago
  I think you might be underestimating what these tools can do. I'm not the person you're replying to, but I have also seen a junior marketing person create a Web form to be sent to clients (using Jotform or similar), have it output to a Google sheet, have Zapier pick it up and move it to Airtable, where he defined a bunch of extra fields for internal staff to annotate the submissions, all while getting notifications when certain conditions were met. Not only could he not learn enough python in a week to do this, but the professional developers on my team could not do this in a week.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    This actually feels very unixish. `form | sheet; crontab: zapier | airtable`. Simple tools that can be simply combined - I feel similar about Tasker, where I can combine various building blocks without worrying about compiling an app. (It does get cumbersome without an IDE)
- pkalinowski 7y ago
  > I can teach IF, FOR, and the basics of python in a week. I can teach ruby in about the same. For what they are going to need for a low code solution, that's enough. You don't need to teach all of programming - only a subset that would be covered in a low/no code solution. OK, now what? Do you teach them deployment of those "low code solutions"? Is it another week? "Oh, now you want to send a notification to Slack? That's a little above basics. What about another week of learning the concept of libraries?" Do you see the pattern?