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Good essay. Yes, the sociology and politics of the way we do science is overtaking the reproducible learning aspect. Foundations for many things, like physics,

Good essay. Yes, the sociology and politics of the way we do science is overtaking the reproducible learning aspect. Foundations for many things, like physics, are as solid as necessary for doing a lot of work, but by the time you get to the point where you should be testing, rearranging, and ferreting out flaws in the foundations, you're so indoctrinated into a culture that you don't have the mental tools necessary to do the required work. So instead you just chug along the way the last generation did, adding a decimal point here or there. It's not wrong. It's just not changing over time. It is stagnant. The nice thing about physics is that with new advances in astronomy and the lack of a unified theory, it keeps getting poked with reminders that there may be missing pieces. That's not true in many other fields.

hhas01 7y ago
Stagnant? Or just mature, like a fine cheese and wine?
- DanielBMarkham 7y ago
  As an outsider, I don't know. There is a presumption that since things have changed over time, they will continue to change. This very well might not be true. I didn't want to get too Kuhnian, so I just used the word "stagnant" for effect. Once again, as an outsider it doesn't seem to me that they are anywhere near "done", but they sure as heck look like a mature science. Physics and its children have given us amazing things. Spending a lot of time playing with math wasn't one of them. All sciences have one aspect in common: until you get to reproducibility, the conversation in the community tends towards groupthink over time. That's a human characteristic not related to any one field of study.
- shkkmo 7y ago
  Mature implies that no further major improvement is required. That does not seem to be the case with the foundations of physics given some of the fundementally unresolved inconsistencies.
wolfgke 7y ago
> but by the time you get to the point where you should be testing, rearranging, and ferreting out flaws in the foundations, you're so indoctrinated into a culture that you don't have the mental tools necessary to do the required work. Don't you rather believe that a much simpler explanation is that the incentives and terms for grants are at fault?
- DanielBMarkham 7y ago
  I believe I said that. You might be confusing the reason for various sciences to get stuck with the mechanism of how they actually get stuck. The reason is that groups of people have common characteristics over time. As for the mechanism, I'm with you. Always assume the simplest explanation unless there's some evidence otherwise. Missing the "mental tools required to do the work" can be as simple as not being popular in your field of study, or a character unable to get funding or provide the oversight of funding that is necessary for your science to advance. I believe if you understand the reason, you realize that you could very well end up playing whack-a-mole simply by trying to fix the various mechanisms. That would be a tragedy.

hhas01 7y ago

Stagnant? Or just mature, like a fine cheese and wine?

DanielBMarkham 7y ago
As an outsider, I don't know. There is a presumption that since things have changed over time, they will continue to change. This very well might not be true. I didn't want to get too Kuhnian, so I just used the word "stagnant" for effect. Once again, as an outsider it doesn't seem to me that they are anywhere near "done", but they sure as heck look like a mature science. Physics and its children have given us amazing things. Spending a lot of time playing with math wasn't one of them. All sciences have one aspect in common: until you get to reproducibility, the conversation in the community tends towards groupthink over time. That's a human characteristic not related to any one field of study.
shkkmo 7y ago
Mature implies that no further major improvement is required. That does not seem to be the case with the foundations of physics given some of the fundementally unresolved inconsistencies.

wolfgke 7y ago

> but by the time you get to the point where you should be testing, rearranging, and ferreting out flaws in the foundations, you're so indoctrinated into a culture that you don't have the mental tools necessary to do the required work. Don't you rather believe that a much simpler explanation is that the incentives and terms for grants are at fault?

DanielBMarkham 7y ago
I believe I said that. You might be confusing the reason for various sciences to get stuck with the mechanism of how they actually get stuck. The reason is that groups of people have common characteristics over time. As for the mechanism, I'm with you. Always assume the simplest explanation unless there's some evidence otherwise. Missing the "mental tools required to do the work" can be as simple as not being popular in your field of study, or a character unable to get funding or provide the oversight of funding that is necessary for your science to advance. I believe if you understand the reason, you realize that you could very well end up playing whack-a-mole simply by trying to fix the various mechanisms. That would be a tragedy.