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Can you provide examples of CEOs of less powerful companies not getting away with this? Your comment seems to necessitate examples of such.

close04 7y ago
A gogle helped me here: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-10-ceos-in-prison-whyd-they-do-it/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-10-ceos-in-prison-whyd-they... Given that Boeing and GM are/were some of the most powerful in the US stands to reason that most companies will fall under the "less powerful" characterization. But I think my point was clear already: the more powerful the company, the more clout they have when it comes to keeping their CEOs out of prison. whether or not this is doable for smaller players is irrelevant when talking about a heavyweight like Boeing.
- Aaargh20318 7y ago
  I can't help but notice that all these are examples of CEO's going to prison for making rich people less rich. None a single one for making poor people dead.
  - close04 7y ago
    > I can't help but notice Then I'm sure you also noticed none of this makes my point* less valid. Despite the wave of downvotes (which are probably aimed at me explicitly mentioning the US) I can't see any rebuttal of something I actually said: *Given the precedents (like the GM scandal), CEOs of big/powerful companies (Boeing) in the US (where Boeing "lives") will pretty much get away with anything, including knowingly allowing hundreds to die (which Boeing/CEO did). Later edit: > simply trying to lockup CEOs I don't think is the right way to go. Indeed, it's just a good first step. The very same companies and CEOs will always fight any legal changes that would further a culture of safety first because that usually hurts the bottom line.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      > Then I'm sure you also noticed none of this makes my point* less valid But you don’t have a single example of less powerful executives going to prison in situations comparable to the one we’re discussing, right?
      - close04 7y ago
        You keep asking a question that is barely tangential to what I said but avoiding to make an actual point. But because I have a suspicion that you're attempting to disprove my point by attacking something I didn't say, I'll google that for you too: > A CEO just got 28 years in prison after 9 people died from his salmonella-tainted peanuts; Parnell had committed "conspiracy to defraud" consumers by knowingly shipping salmonella-tainted peanut products [0] > Former U.S. coal CEO gets year in prison for blast that killed 29; Blankenship was found guilty of one misdemeanor charge of conspiring to willfully violate mine safety and health standards in relation to the Upper Big Branch Mine explosion [1] So obviously they can convict CEOs of lesser companies for knowingly allowing people to die. [0] https://www.vox.com/2015/9/22/9372519/parnell-sentencing https://www.vox.com/2015/9/22/9372519/parnell-sentencing [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-massey-energy-ceo/former-u-s-coal-ceo-gets-year-in-prison-for-blast-that-killed-29-idUSKCN0X324W https://www.reuters.com/article/us-massey-energy-ceo/former-...
        ryanlol 7y ago
        Okay, so which Boeing executive did something as obviously bad?
    - sseveran 7y ago
      I mean that is a pretty strong statement. It's not like it was really possible to criminally charge Tony Hayward with being at fault for a faulty blow out preventer design, even though a number of people died. In some ways we were probably less safe with him fired, given that one of his objectives was to develop a much stronger engineering centric culture at BP. In Brazil Vale and a number of its executives (along with the European dam inspector) are expected to be indicted. It will like be about falsifying documents related to dam safety. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vale-sa-disaster-exclusive/exclusive-brazil-prosecutor-aims-to-charge-vale-within-days-over-mining-waste-dam-disaster-idUSKBN1Z72GS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vale-sa-disaster-exclusiv... Proving that the CEO is the one that should go to jail, while satisfying, is actually quite difficult. While I would probably agree with one piece of your sentiment, senior executives are often able to escape prosecution for things that are clearly illegal (looking at you HSBC), simply trying to lockup CEOs I don't think is the right way to go.

close04 7y ago

A gogle helped me here: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-10-ceos-in-prison-whyd-they-do-it/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-10-ceos-in-prison-whyd-they... Given that Boeing and GM are/were some of the most powerful in the US stands to reason that most companies will fall under the "less powerful" characterization. But I think my point was clear already: the more powerful the company, the more clout they have when it comes to keeping their CEOs out of prison. whether or not this is doable for smaller players is irrelevant when talking about a heavyweight like Boeing.

Aaargh20318 7y ago
I can't help but notice that all these are examples of CEO's going to prison for making rich people less rich. None a single one for making poor people dead.
- close04 7y ago
  > I can't help but notice Then I'm sure you also noticed none of this makes my point* less valid. Despite the wave of downvotes (which are probably aimed at me explicitly mentioning the US) I can't see any rebuttal of something I actually said: *Given the precedents (like the GM scandal), CEOs of big/powerful companies (Boeing) in the US (where Boeing "lives") will pretty much get away with anything, including knowingly allowing hundreds to die (which Boeing/CEO did). Later edit: > simply trying to lockup CEOs I don't think is the right way to go. Indeed, it's just a good first step. The very same companies and CEOs will always fight any legal changes that would further a culture of safety first because that usually hurts the bottom line.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    > Then I'm sure you also noticed none of this makes my point* less valid But you don’t have a single example of less powerful executives going to prison in situations comparable to the one we’re discussing, right?
    - close04 7y ago
      You keep asking a question that is barely tangential to what I said but avoiding to make an actual point. But because I have a suspicion that you're attempting to disprove my point by attacking something I didn't say, I'll google that for you too: > A CEO just got 28 years in prison after 9 people died from his salmonella-tainted peanuts; Parnell had committed "conspiracy to defraud" consumers by knowingly shipping salmonella-tainted peanut products [0] > Former U.S. coal CEO gets year in prison for blast that killed 29; Blankenship was found guilty of one misdemeanor charge of conspiring to willfully violate mine safety and health standards in relation to the Upper Big Branch Mine explosion [1] So obviously they can convict CEOs of lesser companies for knowingly allowing people to die. [0] https://www.vox.com/2015/9/22/9372519/parnell-sentencing https://www.vox.com/2015/9/22/9372519/parnell-sentencing [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-massey-energy-ceo/former-u-s-coal-ceo-gets-year-in-prison-for-blast-that-killed-29-idUSKCN0X324W https://www.reuters.com/article/us-massey-energy-ceo/former-...
      - ryanlol 7y ago
        Okay, so which Boeing executive did something as obviously bad?
  - sseveran 7y ago
    I mean that is a pretty strong statement. It's not like it was really possible to criminally charge Tony Hayward with being at fault for a faulty blow out preventer design, even though a number of people died. In some ways we were probably less safe with him fired, given that one of his objectives was to develop a much stronger engineering centric culture at BP. In Brazil Vale and a number of its executives (along with the European dam inspector) are expected to be indicted. It will like be about falsifying documents related to dam safety. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vale-sa-disaster-exclusive/exclusive-brazil-prosecutor-aims-to-charge-vale-within-days-over-mining-waste-dam-disaster-idUSKBN1Z72GS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vale-sa-disaster-exclusiv... Proving that the CEO is the one that should go to jail, while satisfying, is actually quite difficult. While I would probably agree with one piece of your sentiment, senior executives are often able to escape prosecution for things that are clearly illegal (looking at you HSBC), simply trying to lockup CEOs I don't think is the right way to go.