4 ms·

Not quite true. Sagan's version was better than that analysis suggests: http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/mf55-spoiler.html http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu

Not quite true. Sagan's version was better than that analysis suggests: http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/mf55-spoiler.html http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/mf55-spoiler.html > as Sagan puts it in the story itself, the surprise is not that it appears that it appears "so early" in the sequence.

jon_richards 7y ago
I’ve always assumed that was also the inspiration for one of the earliest xkcd’s: https://xkcd.com/10/ https://xkcd.com/10/
EvanAnderson 7y ago
I'd never read that analysis of the ending of Contact. Thanks for sharing!
yesenadam 7y ago
It seems there was a large (unconscious?) religious dimension to SETI. Michael Shermer: [David Swift in his 1990 book SETI Pioneers] asked each of the SETI pioneers about their parents’ religiosity... most were raised in a religious household but that not one believes in anything like the traditional Judeo-Christian God... Astronomer Frank Drake, ostensively the SETI pioneer if there was one (and creator of the infamous “Drake equation” for computing the probability of ETIs), who was raised “Very strong Baptist. Sunday school every Sunday,” made this observation: “A strong influence on me, and I think on a lot of SETI people, was the extensive exposure to fundamentalist religion. You find when you talk to people who have been active in SETI that there seems to be that thread. They were either exposed or bombarded with fundamentalist religion. So to some extent it is a reaction to firm religious upbringing”. Similarly, John Kraus recalled: “We were very strong churchgoers, members of the Methodist church. I was brought up in a very religious atmosphere…there was never any thought of conflict between science and religion in my thinking or in my upbringing. Science and religion were simply both seeking ultimate truth but using different ways of going at it”. ... ... One might speculate that SETI, as a highbrow, elitist revolution, contains within it quasi-religious and spiritual overtones, in the sense that these scientists, while not believing in God, do believe in ETIs, uniformly portrayed as higher intelligences who, having survived what might be a tendency in species toward self-destruction once advanced technologies are created, must also be morally superior. To the extent that religion involves belief in and hope for transcendence or transcendent beings, SETI is a high-cultural form of religion, and UFOs a low-cultural form of religion. The Measure Of A Life: Carl Sagan and the Science of Biography http://www.theeway.com/skepticc/newsworthy06.html http://www.theeway.com/skepticc/newsworthy06.html P.S. I was very much a child of Sagan and SETI! I was 15 when Cosmos aired, and read every Sagan book I could get my hands on, got a large telescope, became obsessed with astronomy for years... Reading about this religious dimension years later surprised me, it had never occurred to me. (My family was atheist)
- jacobush 7y ago
  Not saying you are from that background, but I think any upbringing that beats you over the head with something akin to "who are you going to believe, your deceiving eyes or me?" will prime you for SETI or similar "religion" later in life. That beating over the head could be an abusive parent, boarding school or whatever. (Not saying most religious practice is abusive or anything. But it can be.)
- yesenadam 7y ago
  Also, if you loved (Sagan's) Cosmos - Dimitri Martin did a spoof version, Our Fascinating Planet, which is absolutely hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYo-OdQ-5ic&list=PLRcB4n4CGcy8OG9eFOjCyZgooBirO-q8G https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYo-OdQ-5ic&list=PLRcB4n4CGc...
- MrQuincle 7y ago
  I have been raised extremely religious and I completely understand obsession by the search for alien life. In some way it would "ground" at once my entire struggle to get out of this (human) religion. Sure, you can imagine an adapted religion cross the universe with multiple Jesuses etc., but it's much less convincing than the original. Actually, the reason I'm so interested in artificial general intelligence is, I think, driven by the same reasons. If we can create fellow human beings, it somehow is like creating your own aliens on earth. That, and the idea that we need them to solve the tough problem we nowadays face as mankind.

jon_richards 7y ago

I’ve always assumed that was also the inspiration for one of the earliest xkcd’s: https://xkcd.com/10/ https://xkcd.com/10/

EvanAnderson 7y ago

I'd never read that analysis of the ending of Contact. Thanks for sharing!

yesenadam 7y ago

It seems there was a large (unconscious?) religious dimension to SETI. Michael Shermer: [David Swift in his 1990 book SETI Pioneers] asked each of the SETI pioneers about their parents’ religiosity... most were raised in a religious household but that not one believes in anything like the traditional Judeo-Christian God... Astronomer Frank Drake, ostensively the SETI pioneer if there was one (and creator of the infamous “Drake equation” for computing the probability of ETIs), who was raised “Very strong Baptist. Sunday school every Sunday,” made this observation: “A strong influence on me, and I think on a lot of SETI people, was the extensive exposure to fundamentalist religion. You find when you talk to people who have been active in SETI that there seems to be that thread. They were either exposed or bombarded with fundamentalist religion. So to some extent it is a reaction to firm religious upbringing”. Similarly, John Kraus recalled: “We were very strong churchgoers, members of the Methodist church. I was brought up in a very religious atmosphere…there was never any thought of conflict between science and religion in my thinking or in my upbringing. Science and religion were simply both seeking ultimate truth but using different ways of going at it”. ... ... One might speculate that SETI, as a highbrow, elitist revolution, contains within it quasi-religious and spiritual overtones, in the sense that these scientists, while not believing in God, do believe in ETIs, uniformly portrayed as higher intelligences who, having survived what might be a tendency in species toward self-destruction once advanced technologies are created, must also be morally superior. To the extent that religion involves belief in and hope for transcendence or transcendent beings, SETI is a high-cultural form of religion, and UFOs a low-cultural form of religion. The Measure Of A Life: Carl Sagan and the Science of Biography http://www.theeway.com/skepticc/newsworthy06.html http://www.theeway.com/skepticc/newsworthy06.html P.S. I was very much a child of Sagan and SETI! I was 15 when Cosmos aired, and read every Sagan book I could get my hands on, got a large telescope, became obsessed with astronomy for years... Reading about this religious dimension years later surprised me, it had never occurred to me. (My family was atheist)

jacobush 7y ago
Not saying you are from that background, but I think any upbringing that beats you over the head with something akin to "who are you going to believe, your deceiving eyes or me?" will prime you for SETI or similar "religion" later in life. That beating over the head could be an abusive parent, boarding school or whatever. (Not saying most religious practice is abusive or anything. But it can be.)
yesenadam 7y ago
Also, if you loved (Sagan's) Cosmos - Dimitri Martin did a spoof version, Our Fascinating Planet, which is absolutely hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYo-OdQ-5ic&list=PLRcB4n4CGcy8OG9eFOjCyZgooBirO-q8G https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYo-OdQ-5ic&list=PLRcB4n4CGc...
MrQuincle 7y ago
I have been raised extremely religious and I completely understand obsession by the search for alien life. In some way it would "ground" at once my entire struggle to get out of this (human) religion. Sure, you can imagine an adapted religion cross the universe with multiple Jesuses etc., but it's much less convincing than the original. Actually, the reason I'm so interested in artificial general intelligence is, I think, driven by the same reasons. If we can create fellow human beings, it somehow is like creating your own aliens on earth. That, and the idea that we need them to solve the tough problem we nowadays face as mankind.