5 ms·

On the one hand, I don't think that people should be punished solely for their political beliefs. On the other hand, a person's beliefs inform their biases and

by Kapura 7y ago

On the one hand, I don't think that people should be punished solely for their political beliefs. On the other hand, a person's beliefs inform their biases and their actions. A person who believes that the gender gap in computer science is solely because Men and Women are different is not the sort of person I want teaching introductory computer science classes. It excuses the status quo, and does not demand that the people making the claim try to improve one iota. --- I went back and read the "Why Women Don't Code" article by the same author. It is not about why women don't code; it is a piece about the 'culture wars.' There are some charts, but then they're 'backed up' with unsubstantiated claims like, >"Men disproportionately respond to economic incentives, so they are more likely to respond favorably to reports of high salaries for tech workers. Women tend, on average, to be more risk averse, and are more likely to respond strongly to negative stories about dwindling job prospects in tech." These sort of UNSUBSTANTIATED sexist generalisations are exactly why he needs a different job.

klipt 7y ago
> UNSUBSTANTIATED sexist generalisations The field of gender studies is chock full of "men this, women that" generalisations. Where do you think terms like "mansplaining" come from? Yet gender studies professors keep their jobs.
- plorkyeran 7y ago
  The word "mansplaining" was coined by the writer Rebecca Solnit, who is not a professor and is not particularly involved in the field of gender studies.
  - klipt 7y ago
    But if you search "mansplaining" on Google scholar now, you'll find plenty of gender studies propagating its use.
oh_sigh 7y ago
Is it unsubstantiated because he doesn't link to a study right there that he is referencing? Or is it unsubstantiated because you've read every paper ever written on the topic, and you know those sexist generalisations could not possibly be true? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6417700/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6417700/ > We find strong evidence that incentives have differential effects on the effort allocation decisions of men and women
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't snark or argue in the flamewar style on HN. It just provokes others and discredits whatever good point you have to make. The idea here is to treat other people, even those you disagree with, thoughtfully. Especially those you disagree with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
isodude 7y ago
Instead of raising your pitch fork, prove him wrong. I would say the same thing and I would very much like the success of women. As the research suggests, this starts in kindergarten and is driven by women since they are most likely over represented in the work force. Nobody chose to do it, habits die hard though. But to call for someone to get fired for just saying that seems like quite the reach.
dang 7y ago
I realize it's a minor point, but it's in the site guidelines for a reason: please don't use uppercase for emphasis on HN. It's basically yelling, and if you start yelling, other people start yelling back, as exemplified below. Ironically, that makes everyone harder to hear. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mnm1 7y ago
Just because you're closed minded and cannot deal with ideas foreign from your own doesn't mean this man should lose his job or not teach. In fact, your personal shortcomings should have no effect on his life. It's too bad that as a society we are too stupid to see this and too influenced by closed minded hate like you are spewing here to stand up to such bullying and harassment of people based simply upon their opinions. I would expect a university to stand up to such bullying and hate, but they have taken the side of the closed minded, free speech hating abusers. That brings into question the value of these university programs. And considering the extremely low quality of both undergraduates and graduates coming from so called top institutions like Stanford, it's clear most students, even at the graduate level, hardly know anything. The reality is, most people are not qualified to be in this field, including most people currently in it. That's why we have so much shitty engineering, bad choice, and horrific architectures. That goes for men and women. It's no wonder this is the state of things when the comp sci program is focusing on gender pronouns and names rather than data structures, algorithms, and architecture. What would be ideal is better quality software and focusing on gender and equality issues sure as fuck won't get us there despite the delusions of the current ruling class in education.
- dang 7y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here. Also, you've been posting ideological flamewar comments in several different threads today. That's not cool—it's destructive of the whole point of this site. If you value HN as an interesting place, please don't contribute to burning it down. If you don't value it as an interesting place, please find some other place that does interest you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
himinlomax 7y ago
> A person who believes that the gender gap in computer science is solely because Men and Women are different is not the sort of person I want teaching introductory computer science classes. What if it's true?
- MisterBastahrd 7y ago
  What if he's just mediocre in all aspects of his life and the reason he doesn't have tenure is because he's easily replaceable?
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  It's absolutely not; women get fed up from hearing this crap all the time and just go do something else where people don't insult them all the time.
  - himinlomax 7y ago
    That's not a very powerful argument. In fact it's not an argument at all. And it doesn't even answer the question: WHAT IF it's true? Not is it true, not how morally bad is this, not how do you or "women" feel about it (using quotes because implying women as a group share such a feeling and that you know what it is sounds just bizarre on the face of it.)
- manfredo 7y ago
  If it's true then we will end up establishing discriminatory policies to try and achieve parity when the pool of people interested in computer science are not close to parity. I've witnessed this at several companies who set diversity OKRs at 30-35%.
josteink 7y ago
> A person who believes that the gender gap in computer science is solely because Men and Women are different is not the sort of person I want teaching So you don't want people who deal with facts and science to do teaching. Gotcha.

by Kapura 7y ago

klipt 7y ago

> UNSUBSTANTIATED sexist generalisations The field of gender studies is chock full of "men this, women that" generalisations. Where do you think terms like "mansplaining" come from? Yet gender studies professors keep their jobs.

plorkyeran 7y ago
The word "mansplaining" was coined by the writer Rebecca Solnit, who is not a professor and is not particularly involved in the field of gender studies.
- klipt 7y ago
  But if you search "mansplaining" on Google scholar now, you'll find plenty of gender studies propagating its use.

oh_sigh 7y ago

Is it unsubstantiated because he doesn't link to a study right there that he is referencing? Or is it unsubstantiated because you've read every paper ever written on the topic, and you know those sexist generalisations could not possibly be true? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6417700/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6417700/ > We find strong evidence that incentives have differential effects on the effort allocation decisions of men and women

dang 7y ago
Please don't snark or argue in the flamewar style on HN. It just provokes others and discredits whatever good point you have to make. The idea here is to treat other people, even those you disagree with, thoughtfully. Especially those you disagree with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

isodude 7y ago

Instead of raising your pitch fork, prove him wrong. I would say the same thing and I would very much like the success of women. As the research suggests, this starts in kindergarten and is driven by women since they are most likely over represented in the work force. Nobody chose to do it, habits die hard though. But to call for someone to get fired for just saying that seems like quite the reach.

dang 7y ago

I realize it's a minor point, but it's in the site guidelines for a reason: please don't use uppercase for emphasis on HN. It's basically yelling, and if you start yelling, other people start yelling back, as exemplified below. Ironically, that makes everyone harder to hear. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mnm1 7y ago

Just because you're closed minded and cannot deal with ideas foreign from your own doesn't mean this man should lose his job or not teach. In fact, your personal shortcomings should have no effect on his life. It's too bad that as a society we are too stupid to see this and too influenced by closed minded hate like you are spewing here to stand up to such bullying and harassment of people based simply upon their opinions. I would expect a university to stand up to such bullying and hate, but they have taken the side of the closed minded, free speech hating abusers. That brings into question the value of these university programs. And considering the extremely low quality of both undergraduates and graduates coming from so called top institutions like Stanford, it's clear most students, even at the graduate level, hardly know anything. The reality is, most people are not qualified to be in this field, including most people currently in it. That's why we have so much shitty engineering, bad choice, and horrific architectures. That goes for men and women. It's no wonder this is the state of things when the comp sci program is focusing on gender pronouns and names rather than data structures, algorithms, and architecture. What would be ideal is better quality software and focusing on gender and equality issues sure as fuck won't get us there despite the delusions of the current ruling class in education.

dang 7y ago
Personal attacks will get you banned here. Also, you've been posting ideological flamewar comments in several different threads today. That's not cool—it's destructive of the whole point of this site. If you value HN as an interesting place, please don't contribute to burning it down. If you don't value it as an interesting place, please find some other place that does interest you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

himinlomax 7y ago

> A person who believes that the gender gap in computer science is solely because Men and Women are different is not the sort of person I want teaching introductory computer science classes. What if it's true?

MisterBastahrd 7y ago
What if he's just mediocre in all aspects of his life and the reason he doesn't have tenure is because he's easily replaceable?
wayoutthere 7y ago
It's absolutely not; women get fed up from hearing this crap all the time and just go do something else where people don't insult them all the time.
- himinlomax 7y ago
  That's not a very powerful argument. In fact it's not an argument at all. And it doesn't even answer the question: WHAT IF it's true? Not is it true, not how morally bad is this, not how do you or "women" feel about it (using quotes because implying women as a group share such a feeling and that you know what it is sounds just bizarre on the face of it.)
manfredo 7y ago
If it's true then we will end up establishing discriminatory policies to try and achieve parity when the pool of people interested in computer science are not close to parity. I've witnessed this at several companies who set diversity OKRs at 30-35%.

josteink 7y ago

> A person who believes that the gender gap in computer science is solely because Men and Women are different is not the sort of person I want teaching So you don't want people who deal with facts and science to do teaching. Gotcha.